Filed with People, Groups & Places (MOC) · Related: Sources, Books & Media (MOC) · 60.1 Israel-Palestine
Destiny vs Baddar on Break Points
Baddar vs Destiny
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Apartheid
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Occupation of Gaza, West Bank, Jerusalem
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P. Agreed to 80%—Peace process
- Israel isn’t interested in peace; P. are
- Israel build settlements
- Intrenched occupation
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“Every human rights organization in the world”
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Ethnic Cleansing
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P. doing terrorism is ok; ANC did it in South Africa
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Both sides are equal isn’t true
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P. are oppressed
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US support
- Settler pop doubled 93-2000
- During peace process
- Israel playing game to expand control of West Bank
- Reason why peace process failed
- Settlements illegal under international law.
- Most generous offer: Camp David II accords
- Ben Ami quote “Wouldn’t agree”
- https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1aegoun/arafat_was_right_to_turn_down_camp_david_the/
- UN Resolution 242
- acquisition land illegal with war
- P. recognized Israel by beginning peace process and Israel responded by expanding occupation
- Court of Justice 2004 - Israel building wall
- “Audience disservice” — wants international law bodies to be final word and it be non-debatable
- “steals land against international law”
- “ethnic cleansing” in slow motion
- US sending weapons
- ‘debate semantics’ ‘level of weeds designed to miss overarching picture’
- ‘entire world agrees’
- Oslo 1993
- Premised on withdrawing on occupied territories
- Gaza occupation ended in 2005 when Israel left is a lie
- Cant have air port
- Israel checks for anyone entering
- Issue is no ships or airport, border is fine
- Wanted to put Gaza on a diet, calorie restriction
- Didn’t allow cookies and chips
- wont say that blockade is there is because of terrorist attacks from Hamas
- Dominance relationship over Palestinians
- Flotilla incident caused Israel to stop restricting food
- P. bent over backward for Two-State solution
- End occupation
- Back to 47 borders
- 7 year fake peace process claiming to withdraw from settlements and instead expanded them
- Israel never freezed settlement building
- never a serious commitment
- slowed it down only
- “in 47 P. were asked to give up half their country”
- Massacres in 48 war by israel
- 700k driven from their homes in 47 war
- Zionists played a part in getting Jews to feel unsafe to drive them to leave Arab countries
- 500 P. towns and villages erased so P. couldn’t come back (48 war)
- Israel doesnt have right to say P. can’t come back
- “Israel imposed itself on P. engaged itself in a campaign of ethnic cleansing drove them out of their homes and took over their land and created a Jewish state.”
- Imported Jews from Europe
- 2:04 — detailed figures for 48 war
- 30% of 700k were driven out before 1948
- civil war before arab invasion
- Wont admit P. side did any massacres at all
- Justify Oct 7 because
- of occupation,
- food insecurity,
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9998069/#:~:text=A recent survey conducted in,the West Bank (10)
- https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-08966-1
- 97% of water undrinkable
- 12 hours a day electricity
- Blockade of 17 years
- unemployment
- Couldn’t trade
- Could leave or come
- 250 P. killed in West Bank in 2023
- Deadliest year for P. children claimed
- that was statue quo
- Open air prison
- pursued negotiations
- BDS movement
- US intervenes for Israel in international courts/UN; 50 UN Vetos — greater than # of total vetos combined for permanent members
- all these terrible things going on in Gaza, but what about all that aid Gaza gets? And US is bad, but giving a ton of money
- both siding the issue is wrong
- Oppressed oppressive people argument
- Disagrees that Amnesty International says Hamas uses human shields
- just they are in civilian areas, not human shields
- wrong definition
- https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule97
- https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1ag2ly5/mild_effortpost_all_relevant_info_on_human/
- IDF uses human shields
- official policy by Israel
- Israel supreme court said you can’t do that; Israel appealed (proof)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1aglnbm/dissecting_omar_baddars_response_video_effortpost/
Cenk Debate @ 1600 EST today | Preparing for February…
Final Yemen History day | Picking next research subject (Immigration/Border? Iran?)
1:26hr