America a Christian Nation?

Debating Michael Knowles: Is America a Christian Nation? - YouTube

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Knowles

• Beginning of America
  • 1620 - Mayflower
    • The Mayflower was a ship that brought the Pilgrims, a group of English separatists seeking religious freedom, to what is now Plymouth, Massachusetts in 1620. The Pilgrims established the Plymouth Colony and are often credited with being some of the earliest European settlers of what would become the United States.
    • The connection between the Mayflower and the United States being a Christian nation lies in the fact that many of the early settlers who came to America were seeking religious freedom and were motivated by their Christian faith. The Pilgrims and other early colonists often cited their faith as a guiding principle in their lives and in the establishment of their communities. This Christian influence can be seen in many aspects of American culture, laws, and institutions.
    • While it is true that America has a long history of religious diversity and separation of church and state, the influence of Christianity on American society is undeniable, particularly in its early colonial history. The Mayflower Compact, signed by the Pilgrims upon their arrival in America, is often cited as an early example of self-government based on Christian principles.
  • Puritans that followed the Pilgrams
  • Model of Christian Charity speech 1630
    • “Shining city on a hill”
  • They made it clear it was a religious project
  • Hodgepodge of religions a bit
  • John Jay - Christianity must be religion of USA
    • Non-Christians should not lead the nation
  • Predicated that God exists and those natural rights
  • On the money
  • Christian men, that were motivated by Christian ideas from Christian institutions that found the country, whether it was consciously Christian or not.
• Thomas Paine
  • Not a founding father
• Thomas Jefferson
  • Liberal
  • Reluctant to put Creator
  • Secular vision
  • Desires weren’t completed (Firm wall between church and state)
• John Adams
  • “And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.”
• Federalist Papers
  • Cites God directly
• Constitution
  • Separation of Church and State misunderstood
    • Churches already established at state level
    • 14th amendment later
    • Not firm separation
    • Congress can’t do it, but states could and did
    • Its a restriction on the Congress
• Was NOT a secular nation at the federal level
  • Can’t separate from states
  • Didn’t take a sectarian side in things
  • Best description of American government was from Saint Thomas Aquinas
    • Whereas the best regime simply speaking is monarchy, the best possible regime seems to be the mixed government that incorporates the positive dimensions of monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy (In the Summa Theologiae, Aquinas appears to use the name of democracy in place of Aristotle’s conception of polity.). To support this conclusion, Aquinas is able to cite the Hebrew form of government established by God in the Old Testament. Whereas Moses (and his successors) ruled the Jews as a monarch, there also existed a council of seventy-two elders which provided “an element of aristocracy.” Inasmuch as the rulers were selected from among the people, this sacred regime of the Bible also incorporated a certain dimension of democracy
• Treaty of Tripoli
  • Negotiated by Jefferson acolyte
• You can find contractions or Founders saying its not a Christian nation, but the evidence is overwhelming on the side that it is
• Declaration of Independence
  • Addressed to King George, but its designed to appeal to American colonists
  • Why is it they had to appeal to Christian ideals to persuade the American colonists
• Alexis de Tocqueville:
  • America’s Schism
    • America talks in liberal modern way
    • Behave in liberal conservative way
  • American in future will follow secularism or Catholicism
• “In God we Trust”
  • 1812
    • Influences and put into National Anthem
  • Pledge of Allegiance put in to fight communism
• America is more religious than most Western nations
• How did we have established churches in States?
• How do we have blasphemy & Sabbath laws?

  All Human Conflict Is Ultimately Theological - Cardinal Manning
  -Always comes back to religion, as its their internal values

• 1770-1790s
  • Thanksgiving feast holiday
  • deity era
• Abraham Lincoln overtly Christian
• Re-founding of the Republic
  • Abolition movement
  • More religious
• Path of American History
  • 1620-1630s: Clearly Christian
  • Enlightenment Area: Dips
  • Second Revolutionary War: Slight increase
  • Gettysburg Address Area: Major increase
  • End of 19th Century: Christian area
  • Cold War: Center place against communism
  • 1950s-1960s: Secular increase
• Benjamin Franklin wanted them to pray at Constitutional Congress
• The young politicians at Constitutional Congress were influenced by the Enlightenment and more secular
• Washington saw the hand of Providence
  • Wasn’t devout but not secular
• Catholic Church papil bulls against slavery from 1420s
  • Sublimis Deus - Wikipedia
  • The Popes and Slavery: Setting the Record Straight | EWTN

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O’Connor

• Letters from Founders
• Thomas Paine
  • Author of the Revolution “Common Sense”
  • Age of Reason author
  • Org religions as conspiracies
  • Exiled
• Declaration of Independence
  • Not legal document
    • Knowles: Had some legal weight
  • Has a Creator, but not a Christian creator, maybe in mind
  • Creator section written for its political end, like Treaty of Tripoli
• Founders were genius because it was a “Christian creator” but a Creator without a certain religion
• Constitution
  • Religion only mentioned twice
    • No religious tests for public office
    • bill of rights — free exercise of religion
  • Establishment Clause
    • The Establishment Clause is a provision in the First Amendment of the United States Constitution that prohibits the government from establishing or endorsing any official religion. It ensures the separation of church and state and protects individuals’ rights to freedom of religion. The Establishment Clause is often cited in cases involving issues such as prayer in schools, religious displays on government property, and government funding for religious organizations.
    • Doesn’t just preclude an established church, more broad than that. Protection of both private religious belief and preclusion of the government from legislating in any way the establishment of religion
• Thomas Jefferson
  • Removes divinity from gospels
  • Wall of Separation between Church and State
• Federal level a secular nation
• Better framed, “Is America a religious nation?”
  • Why wasn’t there more religious talk in the Constitution?
• For every example you have of a Founder in their private letters saying its a Christian nation you have find even the same founders at times saying the opposite.
• John Adams
  • Treaty of Tripoli - Not founded on the Christian religion
    • Counter: Just writing to some Muslims trying to get them to stop attacking our sailors
    • Declaration of Independence similar as its sent to the King
• Founders had completely different views of God
• The constitution of the people has been Christian
• Separation of Church and State was not what the American revolution was about
  • Happened at the writing of the Constitution later
• Founding Fathers would change how they talked about God and his relationship to America depending on their political aim
• “While some have boasted it as a work from Heaven, others have given it a less righteous origin. I have many reasons to believe that it is the work of plain, honest men.” -Gouverneur Morris
• Benjamin Franklin
  • Daily prayer meetings at Constitutional congress motion fails
  • When the Constitution was being debated at the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin rose to say: “The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see that God governs in the affairs of men. Without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.’ He asked: “Have we now forgotten this powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” Franklin then asked the Convention to begin its daily deliberations by asking for the assistance of Almighty God.’
  • Underlines God twice
• Idea that God wasn’t necessary during Constitutional Congress
• George Washington
  • Didn’t miss an hour of Constitutional Congress
  • Only went to church 3 times
  • Wasn’t as devout as many make him out to be
  • Didn’t take communion
• Judeo-Christian values
  • Can’t be text
  • Taking things out of context from the bible

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