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Rachel Wilson vs. Feminist Conservative Driena Sixto Debate | Whatever Debates 26

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Core Debate: What Was Really Being Argued?

On the surface, the debate was about whether women should vote, whether Drianna is a “feminist conservative,” and whether Rachel’s anti-feminist position is coherent.

Underneath that, the debate was actually about two incompatible political-philosophical worldviews:

  • Rachel Wilson’s side: society should be organized around hierarchy, duty, sex roles, Christian moral order, family formation, and male authority.
  • Drianna Sixto’s side: society should preserve individual rights, legal equality, persuasion, self-responsibility, family values, and limited government.

The disagreement is not merely about women voting. It is about whether rights or duties should be the foundation of civilization.

I. Rachel Wilson’s Underlying Argument

1. Feminism is not merely “modern woke feminism”; it begins with egalitarianism

Rachel’s central definitional move is this:

If you believe men and women should have equal political rights, equal financial rights, and equal standing under law, then you are already operating inside feminism or classical liberal egalitarianism.

For Rachel, feminism is not only:

  • abortion advocacy,
  • DEI quotas,
  • trans activism,
  • anti-male rhetoric,
  • “girlboss” culture,
  • sexual liberation.

She argues that feminism begins much earlier, with the idea that men and women should be political equals.

Her underlying claim:

The moment society treats women as politically interchangeable with men, it has already accepted the feminist premise.

So when Drianna says, “I’m not a feminist; I only support women voting and financial equality,” Rachel says that is already feminism, or at least the foundational liberal-egalitarian version of feminism.

Rachel’s deeper point

Rachel is not debating feminism as a contemporary social movement only. She is attacking the philosophical root of feminism: egalitarian individualism.

To Rachel, the “moderate” position — equal rights but not radical feminism — is unstable because it grants the premise that later feminism radicalizes.

2. Conservatism means conserving hierarchy, not preserving liberal rights

Rachel repeatedly argues that Drianna is not actually conservative because Drianna’s positions are rooted in:

  • individual rights,
  • limited government,
  • legal equality,
  • freedom of choice,
  • anti-coercion,
  • voluntary association,
  • classical liberalism,
  • libertarianism.

Rachel’s unstated definition of conservatism is closer to traditionalism than American constitutional conservatism.

For Rachel, a real conservative would conserve:

  • patriarchy,
  • religious marriage,
  • sex-differentiated duties,
  • hierarchy,
  • Christian moral law,
  • family authority,
  • limits on suffrage,
  • moral legislation.

She sees modern American conservatism as basically liberalism with a slower speed limit.

Her underlying claim:

If your highest values are individual liberty and equal rights, you are not conserving traditional order. You are conserving liberalism.

This is why she keeps pressing Drianna: “What are you conserving?”

3. Rights are secondary to force, authority, and duty

One of Rachel’s most important arguments is that rights are not self-enforcing.

Her argument is:

  • Men possess the monopoly on physical force.
  • Men build and maintain the infrastructure that sustains society.
  • Men defend borders, fight wars, enforce laws, police crime, maintain power grids, and perform dangerous labor.
  • Therefore, women’s rights exist only because men enforce and permit them.
  • If men stopped enforcing those rights, women could not preserve them by themselves.

Her deeper claim is not simply “might makes right.” It is closer to:

Political rights are not metaphysical abstractions. They exist only within a concrete order maintained by force, and that force is overwhelmingly male.

She distinguishes between:

  • ought claim: women should have rights.
  • is claim: women only have rights when men enforce them.

Rachel argues that Drianna keeps asserting the “ought” without explaining how rights exist in practice.

Rights
Force Doctrine
Force Doctrine and Patriarchy
Against "Force Doctrine"

4. Women should not vote because voting gives political power without the corresponding male duties of force

Rachel’s argument against women voting is not merely “women vote Democrat,” although she does make that tactical argument.

Her fuller argument is:

  • Political authority ultimately rests on force.
  • Men are responsible for force: war, policing, border defense, civil order.
  • Women are not drafted and are not the main group expected to die for the state.
  • Therefore, women should not have equal political power over the state.
  • Equal votes without equal responsibility corrupt the political order.

Her argument is similar to an old anti-suffrage argument:

Those who do not bear the burdens of national defense should not possess equal authority over national policy.

This is why the draft comes up repeatedly. Rachel believes it exposes a contradiction in equal political rights:

  • Men must register for selective service.
  • Women do not.
  • Yet women vote equally on leaders and policies that may send men to war.

Her hidden premise:

Political authority should be tied to sacrificial obligation.

5. Female suffrage allegedly expands the welfare state and progressive politics

Rachel makes a consequentialist argument too:

  • Women vote more emotionally.
  • Women prefer security, welfare, safety, social protection, and “nanny state” policies.
  • Politicians pander to female voters with emotional appeals.
  • This expands state power and progressive politics.
  • Therefore, women’s voting structurally pushes society leftward.

Her examples include:

  • welfare,
  • open borders,
  • opposition to harsh immigration enforcement,
  • emotional appeals around children and the elderly,
  • social programs,
  • bureaucratic state expansion.

Her claim:

Female suffrage makes limited government nearly impossible because women tend to vote for security over liberty.

This is one of Rachel’s strongest strategic claims but also one of the most contestable, because it depends heavily on broad generalizations about sex differences in political psychology.

6. Feminism damaged family formation by pushing women into education, careerism, and delayed motherhood

Rachel argues that the birth crisis is primarily downstream of women’s liberation.

Her causal chain:

  1. Feminism tells women to prioritize education, career, self-actualization, and independence.
  2. Women delay marriage and childbirth.
  3. Fertility declines.
  4. Society cannot replace itself.
  5. Labor shortages increase.
  6. Immigration is used to compensate for low native birth rates.
  7. The family and nation weaken.

For Rachel, the problem is not mainly men being weak, pornography-addicted, or economically unstable. Those things matter, but she sees them as secondary.

Her main claim:

The biggest driver of collapsing fertility is women’s access to higher education, careerism, and the ideology that motherhood is optional or inferior to professional success.

She is not simply saying “women should never work.” She is saying women should fulfill their reproductive and maternal duty first, then pursue other things afterward if possible.

Her proposed ideal:

  • marry young,
  • have children young,
  • prioritize motherhood,
  • raise children directly,
  • then pursue public work later if desired.

7. Women’s primary duty is motherhood; men’s primary duty is protection and provision

Rachel’s moral framework is duty-based.

She argues:

  • Men have a duty to protect, provide, build, enforce, and defend.
  • Women have a duty to bear, raise, nurture, and sustain the next generation.
  • These duties are not interchangeable.
  • Equal value does not mean equal role.
  • Equal dignity does not imply equal authority.

Her deepest claim:

Men and women are equal in spiritual value but unequal in role, authority, and social function.

This is why she rejects Drianna’s move from “equal value” to “equal vote.”

Rachel would say:

  • A child has equal value to an adult but does not get equal authority.
  • A private has equal value to a general but does not get equal authority.
  • A wife has equal value to a husband but not the same authority.
  • A woman has equal value to a man but not the same political role.

Her argument depends heavily on distinguishing value from authority.

8. Secular marriage, no-fault divorce, and prenups reduce marriage to contract

Rachel’s marriage argument is theological and institutional.

She argues:

  • Marriage is not merely a private legal contract.
  • Marriage is a sacrament or religious covenant.
  • The state has wrongly replaced the church as the governor of marriage.
  • No-fault divorce makes marriage dissolvable at will.
  • Prenups treat divorce as a foreseeable exit strategy.
  • Secular marriage becomes a “roommate agreement” rather than a lifelong covenant.

Her deeper claim:

Marriage cannot survive if it is governed by individual autonomy rather than religious duty.

She believes divorce should exist in extreme cases, such as severe abuse or serious adultery, but ideally under ecclesiastical authority rather than state-managed no-fault divorce.

9. Pornography and sex work should be banned because they are intrinsically immoral and socially destructive

Rachel’s argument on pornography is not libertarian. It is moral-legislative.

She argues:

  • Pornography has no good use.
  • It corrupts men, women, children, relationships, and society.
  • It should not be treated as free speech.
  • Producing pornography should be punished.
  • Consuming pornography should also be punished, likely less severely.
  • A Christian moral order should outlaw intrinsically destructive vices.

Her deeper claim:

A society must criminalize certain evils, not merely persuade people away from them.

This is a major divide between Rachel and Drianna. Rachel thinks “personal responsibility” is not enough when a vice is socially catastrophic.

10. Liberal individualism is the root of the collapse

Rachel’s most comprehensive argument is that Drianna’s worldview itself causes the problems Drianna complains about.

Rachel sees a contradiction in saying:

  • women should be independent,
  • everyone should choose their own path,
  • the state should not enforce morality,
  • people should be persuaded rather than constrained,
  • rights belong to individuals apart from duties,

while also wanting:

  • strong families,
  • low divorce,
  • low pornography use,
  • high fertility,
  • social conservatism,
  • masculine leadership,
  • female chastity,
  • stable marriage.

Rachel’s charge:

You cannot get traditional outcomes from liberal premises.

This is probably Rachel’s strongest meta-argument.

II. Drianna Sixto’s Underlying Argument

1. Equal rights are not feminism; they are basic justice

Drianna’s core claim is:

Women having the vote and equal financial/legal rights does not make someone a feminist.

She defines feminism more narrowly than Rachel.

For Drianna, feminism means something closer to:

  • female superiority,
  • anti-male politics,
  • DEI quotas,
  • privilege-seeking,
  • trans activism,
  • modern progressive gender ideology,
  • special treatment for women.

She separates this from what she sees as basic legal equality:

  • women should vote,
  • women should access credit,
  • women should own property,
  • women should leave bad marriages,
  • women should participate in public life.

Her central distinction:

Equal rights are not special privileges.

Rachel rejects that distinction. Drianna depends on it.

2. American conservatism is compatible with individual liberty and equal rights

Drianna’s conservatism is closer to mainstream American right-liberalism or libertarian-inflected conservatism.

Her values include:

  • pro-life,
  • pro-family,
  • pro-capitalism,
  • pro-Second Amendment,
  • pro-small government,
  • anti-communism,
  • anti-tax,
  • pro-Constitution,
  • pro-homeschooling,
  • anti-porn personally,
  • anti-trans ideology,
  • anti-DEI,
  • pro-marriage.

She sees these as conservative even if Rachel classifies many of them as classical liberal.

Her implied definition of conservatism:

Conservatism means defending American constitutional liberties, family values, limited government, and moral self-responsibility.

She does not define conservatism as monarchy, patriarchy, ecclesiastical governance, or restricted suffrage.

Her deeper argument:

Rachel’s worldview is not American conservatism. It is reactionary anti-liberal traditionalism.

3. Rights do not come from force, even if force can violate them

Drianna repeatedly distinguishes between:

  • what people can do by force,
  • and what people morally ought to do.

Her claim:

The fact that men can take away women’s rights does not mean women do not morally possess those rights.

She applies this to women, black Americans, minorities, and religious dissenters.

Her argument:

  • A group may be physically weaker or politically outnumbered.
  • That does not mean their rights are less real.
  • Rights exist because human beings have inherent value.
  • A just society recognizes and protects those rights.

Rachel asks: “According to what foundation?”

Drianna answers broadly: natural rights, God, conscience, and human dignity.

Her weakness is that she often asserts this rather than rigorously grounding it. But her core position is clear:

Rights are moral claims, not merely permissions granted by the powerful.

4. Women should vote because they live under the law and have equal human worth

Drianna’s argument for women’s suffrage is simple:

  • Women are persons.
  • Women live under the law.
  • Women are affected by government.
  • Women have equal moral worth.
  • Therefore, women should have equal political representation.

She rejects the idea that military force is the basis of voting rights.

Her implied principle:

Political voice should follow personhood and citizenship, not physical strength or combat capacity.

This is why she compares Rachel’s argument to potential arguments against black suffrage. Her point is:

  • If voting can be denied because a group tends to vote badly or lacks power, then any politically inconvenient group can be excluded.
  • That logic can justify racial, religious, class, or ideological disenfranchisement.

Rachel denies the analogy, but Drianna’s underlying concern is about arbitrary exclusion.

5. The right should persuade women, not disenfranchise them

Drianna’s strategic argument is:

If women vote left, the solution is to persuade them, not remove their right to vote.

She sees anti-suffrage rhetoric as politically disastrous for the right because it alienates women, especially young women.

Her argument:

  • Young women are already drifting left.
  • Telling them they are too emotional or irrational to vote confirms their fears about the right.
  • Conservatives should make better arguments.
  • Conservatives should show women that family, marriage, pro-life values, and traditional life are better.
  • Disenfranchisement is both immoral and politically suicidal.

Her deeper claim:

Conservatism wins through persuasion, not coercive hierarchy.

Rachel believes this is naive. Drianna believes Rachel’s approach is self-defeating.

6. Modern sex conflict is caused more by male-female alienation than by women’s rights

Drianna argues that the root problem is not female suffrage or legal equality.

She identifies the real problems as:

  • pornography,
  • male weakness,
  • poor male health,
  • low testosterone,
  • economic unaffordability,
  • bad government policy,
  • mass immigration,
  • family court problems,
  • lack of male leadership,
  • men and women being taught to resent each other,
  • media and manosphere incentives that profit from sex conflict.

Her thesis:

The crisis is not that women have rights. The crisis is that men and women no longer trust, respect, or complement each other.

This is why her message focuses on men becoming better leaders rather than women surrendering rights.

7. Men should lead, but leadership must be earned

Drianna does believe in male leadership, but she frames it differently from Rachel.

Her view:

  • Men should lead by character.
  • Men should be healthy, disciplined, competent, responsible, and trustworthy.
  • Women naturally want to follow strong men.
  • But women should not be expected to submit to weak, irresponsible, porn-addicted, incompetent, or abusive men.
  • Leadership is earned, not automatically granted by sex.

Her underlying claim:

Male authority is legitimate when rooted in virtue, not merely biology.

Rachel sees this as incoherent because it gives women veto power over male leadership. Drianna sees that veto as morally necessary.

8. Women should have financial competence because dependence can create vulnerability

Drianna argues that women should not be forced into dependence without protection.

Her points:

  • Stay-at-home motherhood is valuable.
  • But leaving the workforce creates financial vulnerability.
  • Divorce, abuse, abandonment, infidelity, or death can devastate dependent women.
  • Women should have skills, education, savings, or legal protections.
  • Prenups or agreements can protect both spouses and children.

Her deeper claim:

A pro-family culture should not require women to become helpless.

She is not saying all women must be careerists. She is saying women should not be structurally trapped.

Rachel counters that this attitude undermines trust, marriage, and fertility by teaching women to prepare for divorce.

9. Pornography is evil, but banning it risks dangerous state power

Drianna agrees pornography is harmful. Her disagreement is about enforcement.

Her argument:

  • Pornography is morally bad.
  • Men should reject it.
  • Women should not produce it.
  • It damages relationships.
  • But banning it creates censorship precedents.
  • If conservatives ban what they find evil, progressives may later ban conservative speech as “harmful.”
  • Therefore, the safer path is persuasion and self-control.

Her framework:

Personal responsibility and cultural persuasion are safer than empowering the state to enforce contested moral judgments.

Rachel attacks this as inconsistent because Drianna supports banning heroin and abortion but hesitates on pornography.

10. Women can contribute to society beyond motherhood

Drianna does not deny motherhood’s value. But she rejects the claim that women’s primary or mandatory duty is motherhood.

Her argument:

  • Women are capable of motherhood and other forms of contribution.
  • Some women are inventors, analysts, professionals, political organizers, teachers, business owners, and public figures.
  • Society benefits when people develop their individual gifts.
  • Men and women should not be forced into rigid roles.
  • Motherhood is good, but not the only valuable female contribution.

Her deeper claim:

Human beings should contribute according to talent, choice, and circumstance, not only sex category.

Rachel sees this as individualist liberalism that erodes civilizational duty.

III. The Real Clash: Rights vs Duties

This is the central philosophical dispute.

Drianna’s hierarchy of values

Drianna starts with:

  1. The individual person.
  2. Natural rights.
  3. Equal legal standing.
  4. Freedom of choice.
  5. Self-responsibility.
  6. Persuasion.
  7. Family and morality as chosen commitments.

Her model:

Free individuals should choose virtue.

Rachel’s hierarchy of values

Rachel starts with:

  1. God.
  2. Moral order.
  3. Sexed hierarchy.
  4. Duties.
  5. Family.
  6. Civilization.
  7. Rights only within ordered authority.

Her model:

Ordered duties must produce virtue because individuals will not reliably choose it.

That is the whole debate.

IV. Steelman of Each Side

Best version of Rachel’s argument

A strong version of Rachel’s argument would be:

Modern society is collapsing because liberalism detached rights from duties. Women were told to pursue autonomy, education, career, and sexual freedom, while men were still expected to protect, provide, build, and sacrifice. This created an asymmetry: women gained public power without equivalent obligations, while men retained dangerous duties without corresponding authority.

The result is low marriage, low fertility, high divorce, male demoralization, pornography addiction, fatherlessness, and a politics built around emotional voting blocs and state dependency. A civilization cannot survive if women do not bear and raise children and men do not protect and provide. Therefore, society must re-center sex-differentiated duties, Christian moral law, male authority, motherhood, and family formation. Political rights should not be universal abstractions; they should be tied to responsibility, sacrifice, and social function.

Best version of Drianna’s argument

A strong version of Drianna’s argument would be:

Women are full human beings with inherent moral worth. They live under the law, raise children, pay taxes, own property, build families, and contribute to society. They should therefore have equal legal and political rights. The fact that men are physically stronger or historically controlled institutions does not prove that women lack rights; it only proves that rights can be violated by force.

The right should not respond to female left-wing voting patterns by disenfranchising women. It should persuade women. Strong families require mutual respect between men and women, not contempt or coercion. The modern crisis comes from economic strain, pornography, weak male leadership, cultural degradation, bad policy, and social atomization — not from women possessing legal personhood. Women should be encouraged toward marriage, motherhood, chastity, and family, but through persuasion, cultural restoration, and better male leadership, not by stripping them of rights.

V. Where Each Side Was Strongest

Rachel’s strongest points

1. Liberal premises may not produce conservative outcomes

Rachel’s best argument is that Drianna wants traditional outcomes while using liberal assumptions.

Drianna wants:

  • strong families,
  • low divorce,
  • male leadership,
  • less pornography,
  • less promiscuity,
  • more motherhood,
  • social conservatism.

But she also defends:

  • individual autonomy,
  • legal equality,
  • freedom of choice,
  • weak state enforcement of morality,
  • women’s financial independence,
  • secular rights language.

Rachel’s critique is that these liberal premises often produce the very atomized society Drianna dislikes.

2. Rights require enforcement

Rachel is right that rights are not self-executing. A society needs institutions, law, force, and enforcement capacity. Drianna tends to speak as if rights exist morally, but Rachel presses the practical question: who enforces them?

That is a serious challenge.

3. Family collapse is connected to incentives

Rachel’s incentive argument is strong:

People do more of what society rewards and less of what society stigmatizes.

If society rewards careerism, sexual freedom, individual fulfillment, and delayed family formation, then it should not be surprising when marriage and fertility decline.

4. Duties are under-discussed in modern rights discourse

Rachel exposes a real imbalance in modern political language: rights are constantly emphasized, duties much less so.

Her point that civilization depends on people doing things they may not personally prefer is important.

Drianna’s strongest points

1. Equal human value does not disappear because someone lacks force

Drianna’s strongest moral argument is that force does not determine moral worth.

If rights depend only on who can enforce them, then the weaker are always at the mercy of the stronger. Drianna is right to worry that this logic can justify oppression of women, racial minorities, religious minorities, the disabled, the poor, or any politically inconvenient group.

2. Disenfranchisement is a dangerous remedy

Drianna’s practical argument is strong:

If people vote badly, persuade them. Do not remove their rights.

Once suffrage is restricted based on predicted voting behavior, the principle can be expanded against many groups.

3. Rachel’s anti-voting position creates a hypocrisy problem

Rachel says women should not vote, but she votes because the current system permits it and she wants to cancel feminist votes.

Rachel has a pragmatic answer: “I live in the world as it is.” But Drianna is right that this creates tension. Rachel opposes the legitimacy of an institution while using it.

That is not necessarily decisive hypocrisy, but it is rhetorically vulnerable.

4. Male leadership cannot be separated from male virtue

Drianna’s point that women are unlikely to follow men who are irresponsible, porn-addicted, weak, abusive, or incompetent is reasonable.

Rachel emphasizes male authority. Drianna emphasizes male worthiness.

A full traditionalist argument needs both.

VI. Weaknesses in Rachel’s Side

1. She often conflates “conservative” with “reactionary traditionalist”

Rachel is correct that many of Drianna’s positions are classical liberal. But in the American context, constitutionalism, gun rights, small government, pro-life politics, and free speech are commonly considered conservative.

Rachel uses a stricter European/traditionalist definition of conservatism, then treats Drianna as dishonest for using the mainstream American definition.

That is partly a definitional dispute.

2. Her “women vote emotionally” argument is overgeneralized

Rachel repeatedly describes women as emotional, propagandizable, security-seeking, and politically unfit.

Even if there are average sex differences in political psychology, the leap from “group tendency” to “remove political rights” is very large.

She does not sufficiently address:

  • highly informed women,
  • irresponsible men,
  • low-information male voters,
  • men who vote for destructive policies,
  • whether suffrage restrictions should apply by competence rather than sex.

She gestures toward civics tests and taxpayer restrictions, but the debate keeps returning to sex.

3. Her force argument risks collapsing into “might makes right”

Rachel tries to distinguish “is” from “ought,” but she often slides between them.

She says:

  • rights exist only because men enforce them,
  • men can revoke them,
  • therefore women should not presume equality.

That is a practical observation. But it does not by itself establish moral legitimacy.

Drianna is right that “men can take it away” does not prove “men ought to take it away.”

4. Her historical claims are often broad and would require verification

Rachel makes many sweeping historical claims, including about:

  • no-fault divorce,
  • Bolshevism,
  • suffrage history,
  • anti-suffrage women,
  • women and credit,
  • Comstock laws,
  • feminism and birth rates,
  • Christianity as the only universal moral framework,
  • Buddhism and objective morality,
  • ancient rights concepts.

Some are plausible in part, but they are delivered as settled facts. A rigorous version would need careful sourcing and narrower claims.

5. Her rhetoric undermines her ethos with neutral listeners

Rachel frequently uses insults, condescension, and personal attacks.

This may work for a friendly audience, but analytically it weakens the argument because it shifts attention from the claims to dominance performance.

VII. Weaknesses in Drianna’s Side

1. She asserts natural rights more than she grounds them

Drianna repeatedly says women have inherent rights because they have equal value.

But Rachel asks the deeper philosophical question:

Why does equal value entail equal political authority?

Drianna does not fully answer this.

A better answer would require a theory of:

  • natural law,
  • social contract,
  • constitutional citizenship,
  • imago Dei,
  • consent of the governed,
  • equal protection,
  • or republican legitimacy.

Instead, she mostly repeats that women have equal value.

2. She struggles to reconcile libertarianism with moral conservatism

Drianna wants:

  • pornography to be morally condemned,
  • abortion restricted,
  • families strengthened,
  • men disciplined,
  • women chaste,
  • society restored.

But she also resists state enforcement of morality.

This exposes a tension:

If something is socially destructive, when should the law intervene?

She answers clearly on abortion, less clearly on pornography, and ambiguously on drugs.

Rachel exploits this inconsistency effectively.

3. Her “men need to improve first” argument can sound one-sided

Drianna says she values men, but much of her diagnosis places responsibility on men:

  • men consume porn,
  • men have low testosterone,
  • men need to lead better,
  • men need to become worthy,
  • men need to stop vices.

This creates a rhetorical imbalance. Rachel successfully reframes it as:

Women will fulfill their duties only after men become better.

Drianna does say women also have responsibilities, but she is less specific about women’s duties than men’s duties.

4. Her argument depends on persuasion solving problems

Drianna’s solution is persuasion, education, and self-improvement.

Rachel presses the hard cases:

  • criminals,
  • porn addicts,
  • OnlyFans producers,
  • ideological radicals,
  • voters incentivized by welfare,
  • people who benefit from bad policy.

Drianna does not fully answer why persuasion will succeed where incentives and vices are strong.

5. She does not clearly define feminism until very late

Since the debate is partly about whether she is a feminist, Drianna needed a precise definition early.

Her eventual definition is:

  • feminism means special privileges for women beyond equal rights;
  • equal voting and financial rights are not feminism.

That should have been stated cleanly at the beginning.

Because she avoided defining feminism early, Rachel controlled the frame.

VIII. The Deep Philosophical Disagreement

Rachel’s position in one sentence

Civilization survives when men and women accept unequal but complementary duties under a higher moral order, not when individuals demand equal rights detached from sex, hierarchy, and responsibility.

Drianna’s position in one sentence

Civilization improves when men and women retain equal legal rights while voluntarily choosing family, virtue, responsibility, and mutual respect.

The debate is ultimately between:

IssueRachelDrianna
FoundationDutyRights
Moral orderChristian traditional hierarchyNatural rights / constitutional morality
MarriageSacrament governed by churchLegal/religious partnership with exit protections
Women votingCivilizational errorBasic right
ConservatismPatriarchy, hierarchy, moral orderAmerican constitutional liberty + family values
FeminismEgalitarianism itselfModern female privilege ideology
PornBan itCondemn it; hesitant to ban
Birth crisisCaused by feminism, education, careerismCaused by economy, weak men, culture, bad policy
SolutionRestrict liberalism; restore dutiesPersuade; improve men and women; preserve rights
AuthorityMale, religious, hierarchicalEarned leadership within equal rights

IX. Best Summary of the Debate

Rachel argued that Drianna is not a conservative but a classical liberal/libertarian feminist because she accepts the core feminist premise: men and women should be equal political and legal individuals. Rachel’s worldview rejects that premise. She believes society should be organized around duties, hierarchy, sex roles, Christian morality, and male authority. For Rachel, women’s suffrage, financial independence, higher education, careerism, no-fault divorce, and sexual liberation all belong to the same liberal-feminist arc that weakened marriage, collapsed fertility, empowered the state, and separated rights from responsibilities.

Drianna argued that Rachel’s position is morally wrong, politically toxic, and not representative of American conservatism. She insisted that women’s equal voting and financial rights are not feminism but basic justice rooted in natural rights and equal human value. She believes the right should persuade women rather than disenfranchise them, and that the modern crisis between men and women is caused by pornography, weak male leadership, economic unaffordability, bad policy, and cultural division — not by women having legal rights. She supports family, marriage, motherhood, and male leadership, but believes these should be chosen and earned, not imposed by stripping women of rights.

The strongest version of Rachel’s argument is that liberal individualism cannot reliably produce conservative family outcomes. The strongest version of Drianna’s argument is that equal human dignity cannot be contingent on force, sex, or political convenience.

Content

Transcript

Introduction

0:16 · Welcome to a debate edition of the Whatever podcast. We’re coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California. I’m your host and moderator, Brian Atlas.

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0:55 · Without further ado, uh can you uh yeah, hide that for a moment? Without further ado, I am joined today by Rachel Wilson. She is the wife of Andrew Wilson. She is a mother of five children as well as author of the bestselling book, Occult Feminism.

Introduction of guests

1:15 · Also joining us today is Drianna Sixto.

1:19 · She’s a political analyst and commentator as well as Spanish media director for the Lincoln Media Foundation. She received bachelor’s degrees in political science and international relations from Florida International University. You each get a five minute opening about five minute five six seven minute opening statement each and then we’re going to head straight into opening conversation. And Rachel, you’re going first with your opening statement. Go ahead.

1:48 · All right. Well, thanks Brian for hosting this. Thanks Diana for coming.

Opening statements

1:52 · This is a debate I’ve wanted to have for a long time. It’s very easy to debate like very woke leftist feminists and make them look kind of crazy. But I think that it’s important that we have this discussion between women on the right as well because I think we have a very serious problem in the media, especially with women who say they’re right-wing, conservative, whatever kind of like term you want to use to say they’re on that side of things. Um, I think that just because you’re not woke doesn’t mean that you’re conservative and it doesn’t mean that you’re not feminist.

2:23 · So, Andrianna’s first appearance, she said that she came to the podcast to help men and women and like heal the divide and find a way to have good relationships again. Um, she said she wants both parties to recognize the what the other party brings to the table. So, we’ll talk about the table for sure.

2:41 · Um, but I think her view and understanding of what feminism is, like most people, is based on propaganda, facious views of history through presantism, and just ignorance, which I don’t blame her for. I’m not like calling her an ignorant person. She’s a smart person. But most of us just haven’t gotten the real story. We’ve heard a lot of things that we repeat and we don’t really know why and and they’re not exactly accurate. So, I want to address some of that.

3:09 · Um, I think that once I demonstrate that Drianna actually holds a lot of more classical liberal, egalitarian, and therefore feminist views, what I predict is going to happen is she’s probably going to want to obuscate, uh, do some stonewalling and maybe even personal insults. Hopefully, we don’t have to go there, but I’m just going to keep redirecting it back to the topic and back to what we’re here to discuss, which is feminism, especially among women on the right.

3:36 · Andrew calls them fem cons like feminist conservatives but they’re also kind of running a con. Right? So Drianna sees marriage more as a interpersonal legal contract whereas my view of marriage is a lifelong sacramental religious commitment. So we’re going to have some you know trying to find some common ground to talk about marriage from those very different worldviews.

4:03 · But the problem with this is that uh you know seeing she made this assertion that she’s a capitalist and that she’s coming at this from a conservative capitalist view. But right out of the gate in your last appearance we saw that that’s not the case because you said that you want things like prenuptual agreements, no fault divorce, and the origins of no fa fault divorce are Marxist in and of themselves. The first mention of such a thing was Frederick Engel’s lifelong collaborator with Karl Marx, a revolutionary socialist.

4:33 · And then after he started to talk about marriage as this state contract, this no fault divorce idea of what marriage could be, that was picked up by other people who then ran with it.

4:47 · Uh the other problem that we have is this idea that uh women’s unpaid domestic labor is capitalist which was another assertion that you had that I would take issue with. That’s another thing that is uniquely socialist and Marxist in its origins and in its nature. Um there were women like Maria Maroso Deacosta and Selma James whose work was adopted by socialist labor unions. They were the ones that came up with this idea of women’s unpaid domestic labor in the home.

5:19 · And uh labor unions who wanted socialism ran with that because they thought it was a really good way to get women out of the home and into the workforce where then the workers of the world could unite and we could get enough numbers on the socialist side to have a socialist revolution. So that is definitely not a capitalist position. That’s a Marxist socialist position.

5:40 · Um, and then you had this um, assertion to Andrew that people with prenuptual agreements get less divorce. And he argued that, okay, that’s could be correlated, but you can’t prove that that’s the cause or the reason. And I did a deep dive on that data. And he was absolutely correct. Instinctually, he was he didn’t have data at the top of his head, but he knew that that was instinctually not causal.

6:02 · And when I dug into it, I in fact found that there are small small like surveys they’ve done where it seems that people who have prenuptual agreements maybe have less divorce, but that that’s a selection bias issue. That uh people who have prenuptual agreements have higher incomes, they have more education. So um there’s nothing causal there saying a prenup is going to put you at less risk.

6:28 · It’s more of a correlation. So, I think there’s just like a whole bunch of misunderstandings about this, and I’m super glad that we get to sit down and talk about this. Uh, the great Rush Limba used to talk about the info babes at Fox News, the right-wing conservative media women. Um, and say, “Hey, this is a problem because they’re actually not conservative. They usually have a separate agenda for women. They usually have more of a classical liberal ealitarian view.” And to me, that is feminist.

6:55 · I mean, feminism came out of the Great Enlightenment. and the idea of egalitarianism of trying to make everybody equal, social equality, social justice. So, I’m happy to get into this and sort that out because I don’t think it’s a conversation we have enough.

7:09 · And does that conclude your opening statement? Okay. Uh, go ahead with your opening statement, please.

7:15 · Absolutely.

7:15 · Hi guys. Happy to be here again. So, for clarification, no, not a feminist in any way. Uh, for the first time in my life, I actually was called a feminist just a few weeks back when I was on the show by uh, Rachel’s husband. Uh, I’m pro- capitalism, pro-life, I’m pro marriage, pro-children. I’m pro- second amendment, pro- small government.

7:38 · I am pro- US constitution, pro- homeschooling, and I believe taxation is theft. uh what I lovingly call uh repeal the 19th racial and I disagree on is that women have a right to vote and have equal rights uh under the law as men do.

7:56 · That’s it. I am not here to argue in favor of feminism and I really don’t care about its history. Uh my argument is that the root cause uh like you mentioned of most of our societal problems is the current disconnect uh between men and women which has encouraged uh it has been encouraged by years by different entities, government entities uh to divide and conquer us, put us at odds with one another. Uh not that women can finally vote. That’s not what’s causing it.

8:25 · And to help create uh a strong society with strong families, we need to bridge this gap, yes, between men and women and get both sides to understand the other’s inherent value. I also live in reality. Uh we are currently in a never-beforeseen uh scenario in history, right?

8:46 · Unaffordability is the highest it’s ever been. The gap between wages and home prices is the largest it’s ever been. I believe that’s by design uh to keep us, you know, pissed off in a rat race, unable to reflect on really, you know, who’s behind all of this so that we can unite as a society and fight back against it. Um at the same time, women and men, well, women specifically have relatively recently achieved true legal uh and financial equality in history.

9:16 · In fact, Gen X like Rachel here because I think it was 1980 which is the cutoff is the first generation of women to live under true equality in the US which was achieved with the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974. Uh before that women couldn’t have credit nor get loans without a male co-signer and that’s only 52 years ago.

9:42 · So for the first time in modern history uh women are not financially dependent on men to live and I argue that we should extract the positive things out of this crazy situation that we’re in.

9:55 · Uh and that’s that since men and women don’t financially need each other anymore, they can choose to come together for reasons other than financial reasons like the character of the person and I don’t know love. Um, so, uh, good, loyal, smart, capable, intelligent, emotionally intelligent men see it as their time to shine, right?

10:19 · Because it’s not about the money anymore. It’s about being kind, equally competent as an adult, equally responsible for adult responsibilities, especially if you want to have a family.

10:29 · And this is what most women want. Now, for those of you guys that are hearing this uh, for the first time, we all know that the economy is absolute shite right now. Okay. And that raising a family on a single income uh is a luxury that most Americans can’t afford. So instead of listening to womenhating manosphere podcasts that call you men specifically losers unless you’re making a million dollars a year and that say women are materialistic or promiscuous and therefore you know uh they’re responsible for the loneliness epidemic.

11:02 · I suggest listening to people that don’t make a living off of dividing the sexes, right? And making the problem worse, which I think is evil. And if we’re trying to promote strong traditional family units, well, uh, which I am, despite the economy, men need to become the kind of leaders that women can look up to, can trust, and can depend on.

11:22 · And it’s in a woman’s nature to look for these things in men for partnership, which means men cutting vices that keep you weak, addicted, and with a warped sense of reality when it comes to women, like pornography, which a majority of men consume. And I argue is the single largest contributor to the decay in relationships between the sexes.

11:45 · And I think afterwards, women will naturally want to look forward to relationships with men uh more because why would a woman marry a man that watches porn and thinks it’s okay to do that while in a relationship, which in my book is emotional cheating, or why would she marry a man that wants her to work and split bills, which I understand is the reality of most Americans, but then isn’t equally competent or responsible partner when it comes to household duties or raising children. It just sounds like an irrational deal.

12:16 · Or worse, why would a woman want to give children to men who think being a stay-at-home mom has no inherent value?

12:25 · It’s just what women are supposed to do when raising kids, right, is the pillar of a strong society. And the market value of what a stay-at-home mom does is extremely high. Or worse, nowadays, there’s men that say women that do want to be stay-at-home wives means that they’re gold diggers. when nobody ever called grandma or great grandma a gold digger for being a homemaker her entire life. Right?

12:47 · So, the solution to our modern problems isn’t telling women that they shouldn’t be allowed to vote or have financial independence, which is just a stupid sexist losing message for the right. um but to make sure that men and women value the opposite sex and what they contribute to society. And the onus is on men to hold themselves accountable and become men worthy of leading a family because women can’t and shouldn’t trust men or follow men that let vices or urges control them.

13:18 · And without strong men, uh women have had to step into their masculine energy and fill that void. Um and that’s the problem we face. not that women have rights, right? And if you disagree with human basic human rights for women, then I suggest never to be a hypocrite and take a one-way trip to Iran where women don’t have rights and can’t vote, right?

13:42 · Just like I’d recommend communists here in the US to take a one-way flight to Cuba if they don’t like it here so much. That’s my closing statement. Well, opening statement.

13:52 · Okay. Uh, would either of you like to respond to anything you’ve heard there or?

13:56 · Well, I think let’s start with what do you think feminism is and then I’ll tell you what I think feminism is.

14:02 · So, I don’t really care because so many people have different definitions. I only care about two things, which is women voting and women having financial independence. That’s it. I’m not here to argue for feminism in any other way. Just a woman’s right to vote and a woman’s equal financial rights and opportunities as men. So egalitarian rights.

Defining classical liberal positions

14:24 · Okay, that’s it.

14:25 · So almost everything that you stated as your values and the things you care about here and in your opening are actually classical liberal positions.

14:33 · They are not conservative positions. Are you aware of that?

14:36 · Explain which one.

14:37 · So saying uh egalitarianism that was part of the French Revolution, the ethos liberty, equality, fraternity, that’s a revolutionary classical liberal idea. It’s not a right-wing conservative idea. I I don’t care about So this is this might be a short, you know, debate.

14:57 · Well, you said you were a conservative.

14:59 · So again, the only argument I’m making is that all citizens have inherent values. Doesn’t matter the sex, doesn’t matter the gender, doesn’t matter the nationality, ethnicity, or anything. I want you to make me an argument why you think that that shouldn’t be the case.

15:15 · Why women should be held right if you don’t like America, you can leave, right? If you don’t think America’s the best, you can leave. We We care about American foundational values, right?

15:25 · Western values.

15:27 · Okay. Well, you said America, but let’s just say Western.

15:30 · Okay. Are you aware that this country was not founded on the idea of universal suffrage? That’s a new progressive idea.

15:38 · I know that it was not uh originally working that way, but the US Constitution and the idea of the United States absolutely saw us all as equals. And then throughout the years we had to super specifically define it because you know it wasn’t put that blatant uh from the beginning of time but it’s there in the constitution that we all have inherent rights from God as equal human beings.

16:05 · That’s funny because it took until the progressive era to pass the 19th amendment which was a progressive piece of legislation. It was not conservative.

16:14 · So, all I’m trying to do is say, please don’t use the label conservative if you’re actually a classical liberal. So, let’s just get that straight. All of your positions are classical liberal positions and you’re doing what a lot of MAGA babes do. They’re like, I like Trump and I want to deport illegals and I’m not super woke, therefore I’m conservative. That’s why I don’t I don’t use the label conservative because it means nothing anymore because people like you are actually libertarians.

16:40 · You’re classical liberals. you lean more progressive than not and you call yourself conservative and then say I’m the radical weirdo who’s like this crazy person.

16:51 · Yeah. Well, there’s limited amounts of titles on what to call people’s individual political beliefs. There’s usually just conservative, libertarian, Republican, Democrat.

17:02 · Don’t you have political science and Yeah. Yeah. And so why are you not aware that you’re a classical liberal? Uh, no. Because that wouldn’t specifically define my ideas. My personal ideas are way too broad. You can’t just Okay.

17:18 · What are some conservative positions that you have?

17:20 · Conservative positions. I believe um taxation is theft. We should have That’s a libertarian idea.

17:26 · Um, yeah. Which our founding fathers were very much uh for the first thing George Washington did was institute the uh tax and we fought a whiskey rebellion over it. So no, the founders were not against taxation. Maybe taxation without representation, but we had representation and they said now that we have representation, we’re going to tax you. So it is not a conservative idea to be completely against taxation. That is a libertarian idea.

17:52 · Mhm.

17:52 · It’s Yeah. And I still believe it’s it’s true that it is still theft. So let’s find the conservative position because anything that is done through coercion, right, is is theft. You don’t pay taxes. Libertarian. That’s a dyed in the wool libertarian position, which is cool. I’m not even saying there’s anything wrong with that. But then you’re a libertarian.

18:13 · You can’t put that title on me because it doesn’t also qualify. Tell me any position you have. Any position you have that’s conservative.

18:22 · So conserv So I believe in our second amendment rights, right?

18:26 · That’s also a classical liberal value.

18:29 · Okay. So I’m a little bit of this and that, right?

18:32 · Nope. You’re just a classical liberal.

18:33 · I’m looking for one conservative because libertarian just classical liberal is libertarian. They’re the same thing.

18:39 · So I’m I’m a mix of both.

18:41 · Political science major, by the way.

18:42 · Don’t go to college. It’s a giant waste of money.

18:44 · I actually agree with that.

18:46 · Awesome.

18:46 · Um I actually agree with that. You know, I went to school and I got my degrees and thankfully I’m working in the field that I went to school for. But uh you can learn most everything about politics and international relations by staying in the loop. Let each other finish please. by staying in the loop of things. Um, I actually do tell people, don’t go to college unless you’re going to go get a STEM degree.

19:08 · In fact, I think I got myself most of my positions by skipping classes and actually being active in the community and uh, experiencing reality rather than just reading political theories and books, which I had to do as well.

Conservative positions on marriage

19:23 · Still just want one conservative just one and then I’ll move on from this point. Just one actually conservative position. Conservative position. I’m very pro- family. I’m very pro-life.

19:34 · That is So, you’re against abortion?

19:36 · Yes, I’m against abortion.

19:37 · And if you’re pro- family, how do you feel about gay marriage?

19:40 · I think that basically the government should have never gotten involved in marriage in the first place.

19:46 · But you said you live in reality and that right now the government’s involved and it’s a government contract, which is why women need prenups and all this stuff. You said we live in reality. So, we live in reality right now where gay marriage is legal. Are you for that or against that? If the gays want to uh come into a partnership together, then they should have legal protections.

20:07 · So gay marriage, you’re progay marriage.

20:10 · I’m not progay marriage. I’m saying if two people want to live together and have to legally sign that they are in a civil union so that one can go to the hospital for the other and be admitted the same rights that uh married couples do, then they need to go do that. I’m in favor of that. But I don’t think that the government should have gotten into marriage in the first place. The reality is, however, that marriage does afford certain privileges that unmarried couples do have.

20:40 · So legal advantage.

20:42 · Are you in favor then of gay marriage?

20:44 · Cuz it kind of dodged around. Do you just want civil unions that are different from then how you how I’m married or how you would get married?

20:52 · Um, I mean, most I guess gay couples I think just wanted the same legal rights and tax uh tax benefits of married couples, not the fact that they could do get an address and a tuxedo and go in a church and get married because then they would have to take it up with the church itself. See, and this is the problem with your libertarian position of turning marriage into a contract with the state is that you have no grounds on which to say the gays can’t get married.

21:24 · It has because your reasons your reasons for men and women getting married are going to be the exact same reasons that you’re going to say gay couples should get married. has always been even before you know churches existed and Christianity and all that marriages, civil unions have always had some kind of legal contract and uh observed within the communities that like in Rome for example, right? There were certain privileges and certain responsibilities that were given to civily married unions.

Civil unions versus marriage

21:56 · You’re talking about pagan Rome or Christian Rome before? Yeah. Yeah.

22:00 · Pagan Rome. Yep. Okay. And there’s been civil there’s been again the union of man and woman since the beginning of time. Right. Even in the Bible, man, man and woman became Wait, hold on. Let Let her finish.

22:12 · Yeah.

22:12 · Man and woman became one before God uh not before the church. Right. I think that’s how I personally see marriage myself. I think that if two people want to come together and call themselves, you know, a couple officially before God, that’s it. And then obviously you’re going to want to get legally married because of the uh benefits that exist. But that’s what that’s what I care about. And again, that’s just my personal opinion.

22:38 · I still want to again get an argument from you as to why women should not be able to vote. Why, Rachel?

22:48 · Well, first I just let you talk. So now I’m going to talk. I’m going to respond to everything you just said. First of all, you didn’t give me a straight answer. You gave me a whole bunch of gobbledegook and wandering meandering nonsense to say that basically, you know, at the beginning of this and in your last appearance, you were like, “Oh, I live in reality where uh the government is a part of the contract.”

23:08 · That’s actually not true. So this the first people to make marriage not a sacrament of the church governed by the ecclesiastical authority of the church was Alexander Colintai under Vladimir Lenin during the Bolevik Revolution. In 1917, Russia was the first place in the world that we had a state contract governed by the state with no fault divorce. That is not a Christian institution. It’s not even an ancient pagan institution as you noted.

23:33 · But back in those days, even under pagans, it was more of a family contractual agreement where you’re marrying for the purpose of two families kind of uniting and a lot of things went into that.

23:46 · But no, this is brand new. This idea of marriage as just this personal contract you have with somebody that’s governed by the state is only about 100 years old and you basically just told me that you’re pro-gay marriage. So I’m still I’ll answer put words in my mouth.

24:02 · Then you have to answer either yes or no. Are you for gay marriage rights or not? You are for human rights. You’re for rights. Are you for under the law? Yes.

24:11 · Right. Are you for gay marriage rights?

24:13 · Should gays be able to have the same legal marriage that men and women have?

24:17 · Yes.

24:18 · Okay.

24:18 · That’s not a conservative position. So, I’ll answer your why should women not vote question as soon as you give me one position, just one on anything where you’re actually conservative at all.

24:29 · I’ve just mentioned a few. I am again uh pro life. I am pro marriage. I am pro small government.

Recounting conservative views

24:38 · So, you would small government is like a Yes. fiscal conservative. Uh I’m a constitutionalist, right? So yeah, all of those things constitute a lot of conservative values. Um so you’re pro you’re pro-life.

24:55 · Yes.

24:55 · So you would be against abortion and and pretty much all circumstances.

24:59 · Yeah.

25:00 · Okay, then I’ll give you that one.

25:02 · That’s the only one that I can come up with that that makes you anything remotely conservative.

25:07 · Um so good good job on that. But why do I think women shouldn’t vote? Well, I’ll tell you why I think women shouldn’t vote. So, you work for you worked you did a lot of hard work trying to get Trump reelected.

Discussing the nineteenth

25:19 · You’re very proTrump and you want to help Republicans, right? And part of the reason you don’t like this gender war is because you’re like, “Look, this is a terrible position for the right. You’re alienating all the female voters, right?”

25:30 · Yes, that’s partially correct. Yeah.

25:32 · If women didn’t vote anymore, we would never have another Democrat president. We would never have another Democrat Senate. and we would never have another Democrat Congress.

25:42 · You’re right. You’re right, Rachel.

25:43 · You’re one of the reasons that because of the values I hold, which are actually a lot more conservative, even though I don’t like the term, I don’t really care about Republicans versus Democrats. I think that the big tent republicanism is just liberalism at a slower speed like what you believe in. I don’t believe in that. I’m more of a I’m a patriarchist. I’m an Orthodox Christian. I would be a monarchist if I could. But if we care about the things we say we care about, like small government, letting women vote ensures you will never have that again.

26:13 · The reason the 19th amendment was passed was because the progressive era liberals wanted to pass the income tax.

26:24 · They wanted to pass the Federal Reserve Act. They wanted a nanny state with welfare. And they wanted pro-immigration open borders. And they knew that if you only let men vote, you’re never going to get that agenda passed. the whole progressive agenda would have never been passed without women voting.

26:42 · Okay?

26:42 · And that’s why I think that we should have some kind of restriction as we had at the founding where it’s not just one person, one vote. Um there’s a lot of ways you could do that. I’m not saying you have to just say no females voting, although I think that’s a great idea um for a lot of reasons that we can get into, but you could do things like uh net positive taxpayers. you could do uh something anything where you have to have skin in the game.

27:08 · But if what you care about is keeping this conservative agenda that you say you want for us and the this social and fiscal conservatism, the fastest way to ensure that you never get that passed is letting women vote.

27:21 · Yes, Rachel, that is factually correct because most women uh vote leftwing, right? even though uh most white women do vote uh Republican after uh the 1980s for for president, but you you’re making the argument that because people disagree with my personal political beliefs that I should take away their right to vote. I’d like to and I disagree with that.

27:46 · I think that the way to get people to vote how I want them to is by arguing that my ideas are better than somebody else’s, not taking away somebody else’s right to vote. Because then you’d have to make the argument, Rachel, that we should take away black people’s rights to vote or that would be a good thing. Because because Let me finish. Because black people vote 80 to 90% Democrat in every presidential election, which is a racist obviously position to have.

28:14 · You don’t tell people and your ultimate solution isn’t uh to stop people from voting because you don’t get what you want. It’s making arguments to convince said people that your ideas are better.

28:30 · Well, I don’t give a crap about democracy. I don’t like the I’m glad you clarified that.

28:35 · Yeah, I don’t I’m not a I’m not a democracy enjoyer. I know that you ran I know you think that’s uh Americanism like the American ethos so many places.

28:46 · America was not founded as a democracy and if you went to school for this I would expect that you would know more about this. It was not a universal suffrage democracy. It was a very extremely limited suffrage representative republic. That’s not what we have now. So I am, if you want to call me the traditionalist, yeah, it’s a representative republic.

Constitutional problems

29:09 · It’s a constitutional republic because the constitution guarantees that individual rights aren’t aren’t trampled upon, right? and that we still have certain things that we do vote on, you know, policy differences, but there the constitution has gives everybody certain inaliable rights. So that is what the country was founded upon.

29:32 · This is what I have a problem with though is that you have a problem with her.

29:36 · Yes, I do. I do have a problem with it.

29:38 · This is why and and I know you think that’s some big dunk like, oh, she’s she’s I can’t believe she said that out loud, but I’m going to explain why and everyone’s going to agree with me. The fundamental flaw in our government is this idea that oh we can just keep changing it. So what it was founded as is not what it has become. We have become this ultrar uh society and that was built in. It’s a fatal flaw. I’m not a constitutionalist.

30:06 · I don’t believe in democracy because democracy means everybody gets a say. I don’t want everybody to have a say. I don’t want people who have more to gain from voting to take money out of my pocket to have the same say as people who are net positive taxpayers. I agree with you. I don’t want people who are contributing to the system. This is what this is what it is though.

30:26 · You have Somalian daycare scammers who are getting millions of dollars uh for free because of scams, but the rest of us have to go to work and if we don’t pay our taxes, the IRS is down our throats. They’re about to put us in jail. You have welfare queens. You have people taking more from the system than they’re getting. This is a terrible idea. And the inherent flaw is this idea that just because you live here, you should have a say in how the government is run.

30:52 · Flaws, right? Let’s work on those flaws instead of the blanket statement.

30:56 · It’s a fatal flaw. It’s built in.

30:58 · Keep everybody that I don’t like from voting.

31:00 · Okay, but you didn’t let me finish. It’s not a bug. It’s a feature. You can’t take it out. Your classical liberal foundation of everybody has rights. You don’t care about duties. You care about rights. You’re going to say everyone should have rights. Okay, let’s get into that then. Well, first of all, you’re I want to go back to your assertion that we’d have to say black people can’t vote. That’s atrocious and ridiculous.

31:23 · And I didn’t say that and I wouldn’t say that. However, if black women didn’t vote, that would help. If white women didn’t If all women didn’t vote, we would not be battling trans. We wouldn’t be battling Yeah, it’s going to be quite the clip. Women voting is the larger issue because this is why they wanted to give women the vote because women are easily swayed. They’re easily propagandized. They tend to vote on emotion.

31:48 · Don’t interrupt me. I’m not done. Letter finish. Letter finish. It’s not done.

31:52 · I’m not done.

31:53 · Go ahead.

31:53 · Women do. Women vote. They’ve done a lot of uh I have a whole book on this at home that I’m reading where they’ve done all this research on women and how and why they vote and they will vote things like the Nixon Kennedy election. Women voted for Kennedy not because they knew anything about policy or because he had better ideas. You’re still stuck in this paradigm that we’re in a war of ideas.

Nineteenth contentions

32:15 · Women don’t most women don’t think that way. They’re not going and researching the issues. They go, “He’s tan and handsome. I like him. He’s bald and he’s shiny on TV and I don’t like him. I don’t like his tone.” And so they don’t vote for him.

32:30 · I think you’re let me know when this is like not my opinion. This is what they say in exit polling. This is what all of these political packs who are desperately trying to get women’s votes find when they do the research. Women vote for security. They vote for uh a nanny state and they vote for progressive policies because those sound nicer.

32:50 · That’s why in every political cycle you see all these commercials coming from the Democrats going Republicans want to take away school lunch and they want to kill your grandma and they don’t want her to have her Medicare anymore because women see that and they’re like I have to protect the innocent babies. They’re so helpless.

33:06 · Women shouldn’t be in politics because it weaponizes our maternal instinct against our own interests. So that’s why you see women you see women trying to fight ICE agents in the streets even if the illegal guy has you know uh CP and uh you know liberal women are doing that.

33:26 · Yeah.

33:26 · Well, I’ve I’ve argued with conservative women about this. They they see ICE dragging people out. They see families getting separated or they see kids in behind a fence or whatever and they’re like, “We can’t do it this way, guys. We can’t.” And so even people like Trump will back off on what they want to do because the women freak out and they’re like, “We can’t do this. It’s too mean.”

33:50 · Okay. Are we done here? Um on your rant like you didn’t rant and pratt and meander with your stuff.

33:56 · Uh it sounds like you have a lot of u disdain for women in general.

34:00 · Absolutely not. I think women are wonderful in their maternal role. They shouldn’t be in college.

34:05 · I’m sure that you uh would love to have um kind of a say on what women can and can’t do and what their roles in society should be. Uh I disagree with that. I do think women should be encouraged to become mothers and we need strong women to lead families and and you know have and raise great kids. Uh, however, I am not using a woman’s natural biological differences as um basically fodder against their right to vote.

34:36 · Basically, even if it costs you your liberty and it costs you all the things that you value, they voted for a majority of them for for a Republican in the last election.

34:48 · So, it does show that with the right arguments, you can convince people to vote Republican. That is a factual statement of recent elections that happened. So Rachel, if you are just bad at showing people why it’s better to not vote and for, you know, women to live under uh the rule of men and only have them make uh political and financial decisions for them, then just say that.

35:17 · Right. In my opinion, in my opinion, I have spent over, well, I’ve spent over the last decade on college campuses talking to students from the left to men and women basically on why conservative values are better to sway them to my side. I don’t show up.

35:38 · I don’t I don’t show up on a campus and tell uh 18-year-old girls, hey, you know, you’re just too dumb and you’re, you know, your hormones fluctuate and uh you totally should leave all political decisions to men. I think you, you know, can’t handle yourself and and that’s why you should totally believe what I say and, you know, stop voting in the future. Um, let’s talk about let’s talk about facts. I get to reply to that first. You went on for quite some time. So, let me uh finish.

36:10 · I’m going to reply to what you just said because you just said you must really hate women. You must have all this.

36:15 · I think anybody watching will say that you don’t like women or you have you hold women of lesser value than men. And I disagree with that.

Holding them in a lesser view

36:25 · Okay. Well, I’ll prove to you that that’s not true.

36:28 · Okay.

36:29 · Before the passage of the 19th amendment, the groups that we had two groups. We had the pro-suffrage side.

36:35 · And why do you why do you wait let her finish?

36:38 · We had two different groups.

36:40 · Pro-suffrage and anti-suffrage. The vast majority of women were absolutely against the 19th amendment and women’s voting rights. Did all of those women also hate other women? Susan B. Anthony herself said if we’d left it up to women to pass women’s voting rights, it never would have happened. That all their support came from progressive socialist men.

37:00 · So, I’m asking you, my great-g grandandmother, who did not think politics was the role of women, was she hateful toward women, or did she instinctively know that this was going to create the gender divide that you don’t like? The gender divide you’re trying to fight was caused by trying to politicize women and put them in men’s roles and have them be involved in politics and government. Did those women hate women?

37:26 · I don’t care if a majority of women were against women’s rights. Let me finish. Let me finish because let her finish.

37:32 · Let her finish.

37:33 · Um, I don’t care if 99.9% of women were against women having equal values to men. It still doesn’t take away from the fact that it is correct that women have equal values to men because you prefer it.

37:49 · No, because this country was founded on protecting the minority, right?

37:54 · No, it wasn’t.

37:55 · Let me finish. Let me finish, Rachel. Um this country was founded to protect the individual. Right? This we’re not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic because we all have inherent values. So it does not matter that 99.9% of the population wants something if it tramples on the individual’s rights. Rachel, this is basic stuff.

38:20 · Okay, now we’re getting somewhere. Now we’re getting somewhere. And so again, it doesn’t matter if somebody that supported uh women’s suffrage, so women voting, was a literal witch, a Satanist, a Marxist, a whatever. I don’t care. It doesn’t take anything away from the fact that it is still right that men and women have equal value when it comes to representation. Right? It does not matter that men are physically stronger than women.

38:51 · And that’s why, you know, they should then be the ones to vote because ballots are not the same thing as barbells, Rachel. Um, and again, this is why I am glad to be here.

39:02 · Sorry, keep going.

39:03 · I’m glad.

39:04 · Tiffany, what are you doing?

39:06 · I’m glad. Uh, sorry, keep going. I’m glad to be here because I equally think that there’s really toxic toxic voices in the uh conservative red pill movement um that are putting so many people off from what our side really is about. And some people think that in the red pill movement, you know, all these women just want to take away uh women’s rights. And like uh Andrew Breitbart said that politics is downstream from culture.

39:38 · There’s a lot of people in this uh I guess manosisphere which I’d include you in that you know I debate me and Andrew both debate against manosisphere guys.

39:49 · Yes.

39:49 · Uh but you have a lot of similar opinions which is that women don’t have equal value to men and that they should not vote. And I think that’s toxic and it’s uh it’s part of the culture and it is flowing downstream and it is affecting politics. And as a result, Rachel, young women in this country are the most left-wing they’ve ever been in history before. I wonder what that is.

Contention over contradictions

40:12 · And I wonder if telling those young girls that they, you know, are not smart enough to vote, that they are not emotionally mature enough to vote uh is going to bring them to our side. I think that that is a personal thing as well. Like as an individual, you seem to have a higher emotionality uh rate than myself. And the same goes for men. That can that can vary.

40:35 · You just talk and talk and talk. You’re just g We’re going to be this is we’re going to be here for 5 hours back and forth exchange. I don’t want to hear about your em all you just gave me was emotions. You just gave me a whole I feel like this and I think that No, I didn’t feel and I think I gave you specific examples. But now I’ll turn it back over to you again, Rachel. Why shouldn’t women vote?

40:58 · Might I quickly ask a moderation question here? Mhm.

41:01 · Uh you you had posited that women turning to becoming more leftleaning is because of sentiments that Rachel holds.

41:13 · Rachel, do you believe that that this trend in women becoming more leftwing is because of the some of this rhetoric or Well, I’ll answer that in a second, but first I want to point out that she’s a contradiction machine. I had to wait and wait and wait. Yes. First you said, first you were like, “Ooh, I got her.

41:32 · She doesn’t believe in democracy.” Ooh, that’s a good clip. I’m going to tell everybody she doesn’t believe in democracy. And then you said, “We’re not a democracy. We’re a representative republic.” Constitution.

41:42 · Do you believe in democracy or no? I believe in democracy because a constitutional republic is a mix of a constitution that holds specific inaliable rights for people and then a democracy where people vote on things that are not up for debate. Do you understand those two concepts?

42:01 · Of course I do. You’re the one that doesn’t understand those two concepts because you don’t understand the difference between the founding form of government and the one we have now. You want universal suffrage. That’s a progressive position. You just contradicted yourself on multiple counts. You said, “If I don’t agree with women voting, that means I hate women.”

42:19 · And I said, “The vast majority of women never wanted votes. They didn’t want votes for women.” They even banned women from voting on whether they wanted to vote. It’s my turn now. I know you’re waiting to speak, but let me finish.

42:33 · Women didn’t want to vote. They weren’t hateful. I don’t hate women. I’m not uh emotional. I’m overly emotional here or something. I’m saying that women are of equal value. That doesn’t mean that they have the same roles as men. This idea, what you’re doing is muddying the waters and saying unless we’re the same across the board, that’s inequality. Again, a leftist position.

42:56 · Time after time after time, you say you’re for liberty, you say you’re for rights, you say you’re conservative, but every idea you articulate is a left-wing progressive idea. And you you keep contradicting yourself. Your worldview is irring. No, I haven’t condict contradicted myself at all.

43:15 · Okay.

43:16 · Me not wanting women to be involved in politics does not in any way mean that I hate them. In fact, it’s out of love for them that I don’t want them involved in this sort of stuff for the same reason right now with this debate that we’re having in front of a ton of people.

Women in politics

43:29 · No. Pro-suffrage and anti-suffrage women debated. Women have always Women can talk to each other and women have always debated each other.

43:36 · Why not do that at home? Why? In front of an audience of people. Isn’t that getting directly involved in politics and wanting to influence politics?

43:43 · Because we’re arguing here for different political prescriptions, right? For what we think is best for society. And uh somebody that might be watching might think, you know, Rachel’s a hypocrite because she’s, you know, over here debating instead of being at home with the kids like a good conservative woman should do. I’m against that, by the way. I don’t think that should be the case.

44:03 · But what would you say to those people?

44:04 · I’ve addressed this criticism so many times and if you had prepared at all for this debate, if you had watched any of my stuff, you know what my answer to this is already.

44:13 · Go for it.

44:14 · It was never the case that women couldn’t speak in public. It was never the case that women couldn’t have opinions, couldn’t write books, couldn’t have, you know, discourse in public.

44:25 · That’s it’s what you’re sure? Okay, I’m sure about that. Yes. That is a commonly held myth that women that people people think that women were not allowed. If women were not allowed, how come we had suffragists and feminists publicly speaking, writing books, doing speaking tours, doing debates from the 1700s on and even before that, my book has a whole chapter where I give multiple examples of women being able to have a voice just because they couldn’t vote or hold political office just because there were limitations. That’s not oppression.

44:56 · Again, that’s a leftist position for you to say women have to be able to do everything men can do. There should be no gendered roles. We should all have all options open. That’s a progressive position. That’s So you’re saying women should be able to do anything men can do.

45:12 · I never said that.

45:14 · Yeah. You if men can vote, women should be able to vote and financial rights. Yes. But not do everything men can do.

45:21 · Why Why should it be the case that women should be able to vote? Why? Because we have equal inherent values as human beings.

45:31 · Says who?

45:31 · Says me. Says God, right? You know that we are all Where does God equal as well? But let’s equal value. No, no, no. We’re not going to go back. Equal rights. Explain equal rights to me. Why do all people have the exact same rights?

45:47 · Are representative of values? Uh I’ll go back to the argument of you know how certain people shouldn’t have uh equal vo equal voice because of you know their tax contributions in the US and what people should vote. So you don’t so you don’t believe all people should vote.

46:05 · Let me finish. Uh to get to the point the more recent point we were making uh you said that women could freely express themselves and you know do all of that.

46:18 · Are you denying that women were I guess silenced in any way, shape or form in recent history, let’s say the 19 in the 19th century, the 20th century, that women, you know, if they tried to be vocal about their beliefs that they were not repressed in any kind of way. Yes or no?

46:38 · Uh, if you’re talking about like stigma, like people didn’t like it or it was looked down upon, so what? I’m saying it was not illegal. I’m not talking illegal.

46:46 · Let Rachel finish. Um okay so okay so uh to that to that point then uh it is clear and documented reality for example that if women even in the 20th century right in the up until the 1960s we were still doing labbotoies on people here in the US and labbotoies on women so on just women no not just women this is another myth I’m glad she brought up let me finish talking not just women but a majority of women absolutely Absolutely. Yes.

47:16 · This was happening in the US still in the 1960s.

47:21 · So loud opinionated uh women could be easily diagnosed with something like hysteria or anxiety or anything be carted off to an institution and then be recommended different medications like uh opium tinctures, right? Happy pills for moms that were acting too crazy and that were overwhelmed. forms of heroin, uh, alcohol, nerve tonics, right?

47:45 · Uh, a very popular one before, uh, Valium, which happened in the 1960s, uh, was barbituates, right, from the 1900s to the 1950s. So, for in recent history, you could say that women’s voices have been stifled and repressed, and I’m obviously against that.

48:07 · Uh so you can’t say that no women just had a right to say whatever they want, do whatever they want in recent history and there wasn’t and there was just equality for them. This is documented facts and documented history.

48:24 · Okay. First of all, go ahead.

48:26 · I don’t think anybody should be able to just do whatever they want. That’s you the libertarian That’s you, the libertarian leftist who thinks people should just be able to do whatever they want.

48:36 · Just clarify two seconds. I do believe that uh people should do do what you want as long as you don’t hurt others and you don’t and you don’t take their stuff. So yeah.

48:47 · So do what thou wilt.

48:48 · Do what you want.

48:49 · Do what thou wilt shall be the whole take their stuff.

Libertarian politics and conservative labels

48:52 · However, myself, I personally want to live my life uh as a more in a more traditional conservative role. What everybody else does is not my that is the epitome of the left libertarian. That is a left libert. No, not in my opinion. That is the definition of left libertarian politics that you just articulate. Do whatever you want as long as you don’t hurt anybody else, bro. And don’t take and taxation is theft, man. And like I wouldn’t choose it, but you should be able to do what you want.

49:23 · You know what I’m saying? Without daddy government like breathing down your neck and stuff, bro. She’s like that’s our founding fathers. You are not a Republican. That’s what our founding fathers believe.

49:33 · You’re not a Republican. You’re not a conservative. And you’re most definitely a feminist. Now it’s my turn to finish. All your nonsense about uh women getting lobotoies. Men were given labbotoies all the time, too. I did a whole project on this, but mostly women.

49:48 · No. On MK also disproportionately.

49:50 · Be quiet. It’s my turn. My turn. You’re getting a little emotional. Getting a little emotional. Not able to control your yapping. But uh but people can Google stuff for themselves.

50:00 · Yes, they can. And if they get my book, they’re going to read all about that, too. Clearly, you didn’t read the book. You could have saved yourself so much time with all these bad arguments if you had taken the time to have them debunked before this. But no, men were also locked up in uh mental institutions, forced to give in labbotoies. That was not a gender specific thing whatsoever.

50:21 · There there’s always Now, let me clarify, let me help you here. I’m going to educate you a little bit. Women have always everywhere in every culture. And this is verified right now by two huge studies that looked at all different cultures around the world in 2009. And then they did a follow-up several years later. It’s called the paradox of women’s happiness. Women everywhere are more prone to mental illness, anxiety, depression, and all types of mental problems. That is not men oppressing us.

50:52 · That happens to be a fact of how women are. And there yes most of it’s biology and hormones but a lot of it is just the fact that female constitutions are much more susceptible to negative effect. This is a well suicides wellestablished this is a wellestablished uh fact in clinical psychology as well.

51:11 · They wouldn’t even deny it. Yes, more men commit suicides but women attempt it more. Men are just better at actually following through. You know it’s a that whole men being better at stuff thing again I guess. But that so that’s a lie what you just told. And let’s go back to this idea that like do you think that all men everywhere could vote before the 19th? Do you think that it was all the men could vote and they were like don’t let the girls vote you guys. We have to keep our property there were property rights. Uh there were property distinctions. So some men that didn’t own property could not vote. There were there were a lot of requirements.

51:42 · There were literacy tests as well.

51:46 · Um so yes that there were pole taxes. There were religious restrictions. There were all kinds of restrictions on men’s voting. All of them that were deemed what? Incon unconstitutional, Rachel. Right. And that’s why And after what? After the progressive era. When progressives took control of the government, they passed the 19th amendment. That was a progressive agenda. Ma’am, they you’re not a conservative. I hate to break this to you. You are a liberal progressive.

52:13 · The US Constitution being clarified is not a progressive thing, right? making sure throughout the years that it is clarified that all people have the same equal rights, inherent value, and voting rights is not a progressive issue. That’s what you’re choosing to call it.

52:32 · It radically that’s not true. It radically transforms the identity of what I’m choosing to call it steps in the right direction towards individual liberties which conservatives believe in. Conservatives believe in the rights of the individual. If you are against that, then you are not conservative.

52:50 · I don’t use the label conservative.

52:52 · You’re the one who uses the label conservative, not me. And I’m telling you, you’re not conservative.

52:57 · And I also have libertarian values, too.

53:00 · You know, you can’t really put people in two boxes like that nowadays because not everybody’s opinions on every single little topic, there’s like 200 different things we could discuss, is going to fall cleanly into conservative or liberal. What you want to conserve is Obama era policies. You want to What are you conserving? Any I’m asking you one thing you’re conserving. Name one. What are you conserving?

53:23 · No, you just said Obama era polic Obama. Oh my god. Uh that again you want to conserve Obama era politics. You can’t give me any conservative position you hold that you want to What are you conserving? This is why I don’t call myself Republican. Why I don’t call myself? That That’s what I’m concerned about.

53:43 · Freedom to freedom to marry your boyfriend and uh smoke weed and not pay taxes. Okay.

53:50 · Individual liberties for another generation. Your freedom of speech, Rachel. I am very much trying to uh conserve that because if it wasn’t for conservatives then all of your opinions, you know, if we’re not under this administration that we currently are right now, if we were under a government like the UK’s, you’d probably be put in jail as soon as this podcast was over for saying something like, “I’d be happy that black women wouldn’t vote.” And a bunch of other I didn’t say that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

54:18 · We have to back that up because I did not exactly remember the words, but you said it would be beneficial for black women to not for black women to uh not vote because they would because they would vote on merely for the purposes for the purposes of her you said.

54:39 · What are you asserting?

54:40 · Do do you want to like play it back her her clip?

54:42 · It’s difficult for us to I can I can tell you exactly what happened. She said, “Oh, if you’re going to deny votes based on sex, then you’re also going to have to not let black people vote.” And I said, “That’s absurd.” You said you would have to. And I I said I absolutely would not say that you would ever have to say black people can’t vote. I’m not for that. I’m against that. I do not believe that race should be the defining factor in who gets to vote whatsoever.

55:10 · But gender is gender should be part of it. And I’ll tell you why. Women do not have to sign up for the draft. Women do not have to defend this country with their bodies. In fact, the anti-suffragists articulated this and said, “We don’t want to be involved with politics.” Just let me finish. Just let me finish.

The draft and force in voting

55:27 · Disagree.

55:28 · The women who didn’t want to be political equals with men said, “Why would you task us with something we can’t do? We can’t defend the borders.

55:38 · We can’t defend the nation. We can’t rule the nation. Men have the monopoly on force. That’s for men to do. We want men to protect us and our children. Our role is to raise the children. That’s too important. We can’t be involved in politics for that reason for women to raise children. Right. It’s an important role, right? A role important and equal enough for them to vote on the future of this country and the rules that they live by. Right. Or do you think it’s not important enough of a role for them to vote?

56:10 · It the problem with that is it comes down to force. So you can have an opinion and women did. So you don’t need voting rights in order to have your voice be heard. A good example of this is uh prohibition.

56:23 · Women, the women’s temperance union got prohibition passed. Bad idea, by the way, but somebody listened to the women, so we got prohibition passed because this was a pet project of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union. They did not need to vote to get their voices heard. They did not need to vote to have their agenda passed. So you don’t need voting rights to be heard.

56:45 · So why does it matter then that they do have it?

56:47 · Because what happens, this is what the anti-suffragists also predicted. They were very smart women. These women were not hateful and they were not stupid and they’ve been done dirty by history. Which is why I’m here trying to help revive this.

57:00 · Anti-suffrage women said, “If we become a political block, we lose the moral high ground. What will happen is politicians will pander to us. They will make us just another voting block. They will promise a whole bunch of things that sound really good and do what they want anyway. And they do that. Yes, they do. Which is why I’m against it. It’s why I don’t like the system.

57:21 · For men and for women I don’t like democracy. It’s why I don’t like the system. But that aside, these women said we’re clarifying that if we become just another political voting block, we lose the moral high ground we have. Before women could vote, they could stand up and say, “We think you need to do something about clean water. We think you need to do something about safety in public parks. We want better schools. We want more prohibitions on alcohol.” Whatever it was, their agenda was heard and got passed without them having to vote.

57:54 · Unless it was something completely too radical, right? And in that case, then they’d be sent to an institution for crazy people and lobotoized.

58:02 · They did that to men, too. Um they did that to radical men too. It was not a gendered thing.

58:06 · Basically uh individuals, right? People that have a way of thinking that was more individualist. Those are the ones that usually uh get shut down and have their rights trampled upon in history. Which is again why it is so necessary for the individual to have equal voting rights and an equal voice within the political system that they have to live under. If we were anywhere else, you know, outside of this podcast and debate

Equal voices in the political system

58:34 · right now, we’d have to stop talking right now because, you know, there’s no point in trying to convince somebody that, you know, an individual has human rights, equal rights, and we’re just going to have to agree to disagree uh on that and make it clear to the public on where we stand on your stance being anti-women’s rights, anti- voting rights, anti-equality.

58:58 · And my whole point here is to just make it clear that that is uh the case and that that is not representative of the conservative movement of a whole uh and that it is counter counteractive, counterintuitive and a negative thing for us because it’s just turning more young women to the left seeing these kinds of uh positions.

59:19 · You don’t think the fact that we have to pander to the emotions of young women, what you just told me is Rachel, don’t say that out loud because we have to pander to the feelings of young women because of they have a lot of voting power. They have a lot of political power and so we have to tell them what they want to hear and we have to give them what they want.

59:38 · The truth, let her finish.

59:39 · We have to tell them what they want to hear. We have to give them what they want because if we don’t, they won’t vote for us anymore. Rachel, don’t you think that’s a problem?

59:48 · voting. I’m saying that this is you’re thinking about it wrong and most people do. You’re the whole framing of how you’re framing the argument is the problem.

59:57 · The system is the problem. We shouldn’t have to appeal to the emotions of certain voting blocks, which is what Black Lives Matter is, which is what the feminist agenda is, which is what identity politics is. When you give everybody one person one vote, you end up with all these special interest groups. you end up with all these little voting blocks and politicians have to pander to them. And so you get these radicalized movements fighting for this group’s rights and that group’s rights.

1:00:24 · And I’m saying I do think that that’s the we’ve ended up in a place where with your universal democracy where everybody gets a vote, we’re going to end up in non-stop like basic gang wars, political gang wars.

1:00:37 · is that you’re really bad at making an argument for what you believe in and would rather just shut down the entire political discourse and keep people from having an opinion. My argument is that uh I think that what I believe in is good and that I can present my opinions to people that disagree with them and flip them over to my side because of because my opinions are based on on realities and facts.

1:01:00 · And again, uh, if you’re trying to argue that it’s bad for women to vote because a majority of women, uh, vote Democrat, right, in the past and we’re trying to get women or we’re trying to live under conservative policies, then again, you’d have to say that you’d be okay with people that disagree with you not having uh, political rights, voting rights, namely black Americans, that 80 to 90% vote Democrat in political ical presidential elections.

1:01:32 · And I’m saying that I would be against that. I feel like even though it is most definitely an uphill battle, uh my task is to make sure that I talk to those groups and show them why our side is better, right? Not just to completely shut them down. It’s work, Rachel. It absolutely is work. It is framing.

1:01:54 · It is being a convincing person. it is having to provide that’s what I brought here you know proof and you know different uh different studies and things from the color organized folders are very impressive I’m sure you got straight A’s in school but can we get back to the debate because you just talk and talk so

The problem of p*rnography

1:02:13 · are you going to tell the young women that you want to vote Republican in the next election are you going to go to the college campuses and tell those young women look I don’t like pornography it’s really destructive we have to make only fans illegal we can’t have it anymore I think that we need to discourage people from using it.

1:02:30 · Oh, but you don’t want to actually outlaw it.

1:02:32 · Uh, it’d be good if it did not exist, but again, I think that we’re attacking the problem from the wrong end.

1:02:40 · I see. So, you want to tell the men that the watching it is bad, but the young ladies producing it, we can’t tell the young ladies producing it that they can’t make pornography anymore because then they’ll get upset and they won’t vote for Republicans in the next election. We have to say, “Ladies, look, I’m going to appeal to your better your better sensibilities.” And we’ll see how this goes on the dating talk podcast. If we have some Only Fans girls, I can’t wait. I can’t wait to hear you convince them. And I hope that by the end they quit. I do. I hope that by the end you can convince them and they can quit.

1:03:09 · I think the h odds of that happening are basically zero.

1:03:13 · Uh, are you willing to outlaw pornography?

1:03:16 · You’re a Christian, right? You’re a Christian yourself. wasn’t the whole point of, you know, Jesus talking to people that sinned to bring them to their side by engaging with them and talking to them.

1:03:27 · Do you think that Jesus wanted only fans to be legal?

1:03:30 · Of course not. But I think of course not. So, but I think he’d think he’d talk to uh the women that are engaged in that whole, you know, thing because unfortunately, are you going to go to the college campuses and tell these young girls to stop doing Only Fans or No, prostitution, you know, it’s called the oldest career for women in in the books.

1:03:49 · Um, and again, it does not make it a good thing, but I think the problem comes from the demand side of things. Women also have lots of temptations that could corrupt them, right? But it’s up to us being accountable for ourselves, holding ourselves accountable for if we decide to consume certain things.

1:04:10 · Yeah, that’s working out great. That’s working out great. Are you aware of the numbers of how many young women?

1:04:15 · How many women engage in that versus how many men consume that? Yes, I actually am very aware of the numbers. Unless, by the way, women consume plenty of pornography. This idea that it’s only men is baloney. I agree. I never said that. About 20% average women do consume pornography. Uh it’s about 70% of men that do consume.

Women’s version of p*rn

1:04:35 · What happens if we count written pornography? What happens if we count stuff like 50 Shades of Gray? Then how many women engage in I don’t know consuming pornography. Oh well, let me help you. It’s the bestselling book of all time among female readers.

1:04:49 · Okay.

1:04:50 · So women consume plenty of pornography.

1:04:52 · They just tend to like to read it so they can insert themselves into the nasty sex scene then watch the actual videos, which is bad, right? So, shouldn’t we be addressing again the So, are you going to tell people they should stop writing books? Is that your next move, Rachel?

1:05:07 · I would absolutely have limits on pornography being produced in all forms on written speech.

1:05:14 · I don’t agree that porn, See, she’s a leftist libertarian. She thinks that porn is free speech. This is your MAGA Republican woman. This is your feminist, your not feminist conservative advocate. You know, she’s going to get everybody to vote for conservatives. She’s going to talk.

1:05:32 · It always reduces to the men. It always No, you’re just you’re exactly what I thought you were. You’re worse than I thought you were. It’s always, “What about the men, though?” I go, “Are you going to tell the are you going to tell the women to stop Wait a minute. Are you going to tell the women to stop making porn for men to consume?” And she goes, “No, I I would just encourage them. I would say you probably know that your question and I’m going to tell the men that they can’t have the porn.”

1:05:57 · Relax, Rachel. Breathe. Who saw?

1:05:58 · I’m I’m I’m entertaining. If we had to listen to you blah blah yap yap yap all night long and everybody would leave the chat. Nobody would want to be here. So sure. That is not what I said. You asked if I’d make it illegal. Um and no, but I would tell women to stop doing it. That is those are two completely different things.

1:06:15 · Oh, well that’s okay. She’s going to tell the women to stop doing it and they’re going to go, “Okay, show them that there’s a better way.” Yes. Absolutely. Well, that that is what you got to work harder. You got to work harder cuz it ain’t working. It ain’t working. This libertarian idea that we can just talk people into doing what’s logical is the whole problem.

1:06:34 · This libertarian idea that we could talk people into doing what we want, that’s not a libertarian idea. That has existed from the beginning of time.

Changing the minds of young women

1:06:40 · Your idea, this is a thing from let me finish. Let you Exactly. from the beginning of time in in Rome where people would like gather in a time town square and then talk about their ideas and then decide on whether they agreed with them or not. So you’re arguing again against people discussing ideas and proving why they’re better than others which is bad enough.

1:06:58 · I’m not arguing against it. I’m doing it right now. But I’m saying I do think I do think that we should make certain things illegal. Yes. I don’t think it should just be do whatever you want, bro.

1:07:10 · How did the how did the uh war on drugs work out? How has it worked out this entire Are you going to tell the young women on the college campuses that you’re trying to get to vote Republican that they can’t have abortions? Are you going to tell them that’s killing babies and you can’t do that anymore?

1:07:24 · I’ll explain.

1:07:25 · Are you just going to try to talk them out of You just You just You just presented a question to me. Uh actually, how I would attack that question is showing why abortion is the killing of a human being based on biology, not on religious arguments or anything like that. The beginning of a human life starts at conception, right? and ends at death, conception, you know, uh a fetus, baby, toddler, all of that is part of the human developmental life cycle.

1:07:51 · And so if you believe in individual rights then and you know not killing innocent people, then you have to argue against abortion. That is my argument. It is a logical one. Okay? And it is one that made me, you know, like when I was much younger, I I had different opinions on abortion because of what I was taught in school. I was taught uh that um it’s okay if like the baby doesn’t have nerve endings and then you could just suck it out and whatever.

1:08:21 · And I’m like, “Oh, well then maybe in a few weeks then it doesn’t really matter.” But that’s actually not the case. It’s from conception. That’s the beginning of the human life cycle. But again, this is just education, right? educating people, which you have to do. You can’t just tell people no voting for you.

1:08:39 · I know. We’re gonna we’re gonna educate all the problems away. We’re just going to change everyone’s mind.

1:08:43 · We’re gonna educate We’re going to educate the problems away, Rachel.

1:08:47 · That’s the plan.

1:08:48 · Yeah, that’s worked great. We have more educ people are more educated now in human history than ever before. It’s not an information problem and it’s not an education problem. It’s a moral problem. And that’s where the rub is. Didn’t you bring up the was it the Stanford prison study? Oh, I did back in the in the last where you said they had to stop the experiment six weeks in or something.

The Stanford prison experiment

1:09:10 · Do you want me to do Are you handing over to me for tell us about that?

1:09:14 · Let’s talk about that cuz it actually is a really it’s a really good one where basically um they took in volunteers uh students to play as prison guards and another group of volunteers to be prisoners. And what happened after a certain short period of time is that these prison guards started to abuse these fake prisoners so badly that they had to stop the experiment.

1:09:38 · And my argument using that uh that example was that when individuals have undue power over others then it is just making it prone to abuse. Right? So if men and women don’t have equal voting rights and power then women are equally subject for just a second. I just wanted you to tell me about the study. I didn’t need like a whole diet trial and discrimination.

1:10:06 · That’s that’s the point of the studies that it is in our nature unfortunately as humans to uh take over and abuse those that have less power than us. Which is why we need to let me ask you a question. Why didn’t they just pull these people aside? the people that were play being the prison guard. Why didn’t they get Drianna to come in?

1:10:26 · Dria was not allowed to come in.

1:10:28 · Okay.

1:10:28 · Well, let’s say Drianna, they could they call Dria and they go, “You need to come in here.” And what we need you to do is talk to them and convince them why it’s bad to abuse these people. You need to educate them, Dria, until they behave.

1:10:40 · Yeah.

1:10:40 · I would have gone in there and told them, “Hey, you guys, are are y’all crazy? Is there are you guys okay? Do you know that? Do you know that?

1:10:46 · Can you go to the prisons for us? Can we get Drianna to go to prisons and just talk to the criminals and tell criminals understand. Hey, listen buddy.

1:10:55 · Hey, Rachel. Relax. By the way, listen, buddy.

1:10:57 · By the way, they do that in real prisons, right? You How’s that working?

1:11:01 · You’ve got pastors that go to real prison.

1:11:04 · What is the success rate on educating criminals out of doing crime and they bring them books and they bring What’s the success rate?

1:11:12 · And they bring them Bibles.

1:11:13 · I know what they do. How well does it work?

1:11:15 · I don’t have statistical numbers in front of me. You want to pull that up, Ryan?

1:11:19 · Almost never. Um the recidivism we can look up for most crimes.

1:11:22 · Don’t bring up Don’t bring up statistics.

1:11:25 · Don’t bring up statistics because unless you don’t have it with you basically.

1:11:29 · We can look it up.

1:11:30 · So we’re Yes, let’s chat. GTT like uh recidivism rate for violent crimes.

1:11:37 · That has nothing to do with somebody going in and talking to people to try to convince them.

1:11:41 · Why would they keep offending if we can just talk them out of it? We just say, “Listen, Mr. murderer. Everybody’s you just need to be educated. This is another classic leftwing. This is Black Lives Matter’s whole thing. Yes. This is if you go to Black Lives Matters website, they want rehabilitation. They want to educate people out of doing crime. It’s a leftwing position. Oh, no. No. We’re just going to convince them.

1:12:06 · We’re just going to convince people to do what’s right for them. We’re going to convince people to do take the smarter option.

1:12:12 · Take a breath.

1:12:13 · Yeah.

1:12:13 · You’re you’re doing the thing that everybody does where they pretend that the other person is crashing out when they’re not. It’s not going to work.

Rehabilitating criminals

1:12:20 · You’re getting your butt whooped. Want me to uh look?

1:12:23 · Yeah.

1:12:23 · Let’s see if any uh programs in prison from pastors or that uh reintegrate people into society, get them uh educational degrees cuz that’s something that does have to be a lot more concise. It would have to be like I know I do have Yeah. Uh let’s see if we can make it as concise as possible. What are the success rates of um rehabilitation programs in prison? My argument they’re well known to be extremely abysmal.

1:12:58 · That’s why we doesn’t work.

1:12:59 · I agree. My my thing is you can’t educate people into making moral choices. Dria for uh what specific crime is it? Just violent crime, drugs.

1:13:10 · Pick pick one for now, I guess. Okay, how about this? Child child sex offenders. Can we educate them into making better choices? Can Dria go and just sit them down and they have a dialogue? And she says, “Look, Mr. child sex offender, I don’t think that you’re violating someone else’s personal rights and on that basis, I think you should stop it.” Rachel, do you do you still want Wait one sec.

1:13:35 · Do you still want the recidivism rate for violent crime stat?

1:13:39 · Yes, very good. It says uh over 60% of violent offenders are rearrested for new crime within 8 years of release.

1:13:46 · Uh and then for yours uh for addiction re rehabilitation programs, it’s not clear if that’s just voluntary or through the prison system, but uh the success rate ranges between 30% and 70%. Relapse rates of 40 to 60% within the first year.

1:14:07 · So I don’t know if that’s helpful. So, so my argument is not that we not incarcerate people for these crimes. It’s the fact that people can change and rehabilitate. It doesn’t mean we even release them into society. It means that you can change people’s minds absolutely while they’re serving a prison sentence.

1:14:28 · It doesn’t mean that they have a right to be reintegrated into society. So that’s my thing is that yes, even even in prison, you can go in even in prison, you can go in and you can preach the Bible to prisoners or you can show them a better way and you can absolutely rehabilitate them. I’m not arguing for lax criminal punishment laws. I disagree with that. But you’re telling me, oh, you know, you can just go You don’t want lax criminal laws. But why then why would you defend keeping only fans legal?

1:14:59 · Why should we allow young women to create their own pornography, produce it, and put it out into the public? Why? I disagree that it’s bad. But the why is because then it sets a dangerous precedent for censorship in the future on things that other people don’t like. Because let’s say then we fall under the Let me finish.

A problem with censorship

1:15:22 · Let’s say we fall under the government of a, you know, we have a Democrat president and they believe that uh people saying right-wing things on uh live shows like this is bad. So, we are going to ban that. And they did, by the way, under the Biden administration. Um, so that is that’s what I’m saying. Banning things that we don’t like and making it illegal is not the way to go.

1:15:49 · The way to go is showing people why you’re right with arguments, with facts, with logic. Uh, and we can’t set the president that, you know, we as conservatives and Republicans don’t like pornography. It’s bad. Therefore, we’re going to make it illegal. Then when a Democrat president comes along, they’ll say, Republicans that I get your point, you don’t have to keep repeating.

1:16:11 · I I feel like I feel like I need to for you to understand. So, you got it and everybody at home got it that it’s a bad president. Do you understand that? You take the libertarian progressive view that you have. Sure. But what I would say is we believe in right and wrong, don’t we?

1:16:27 · If okay, why don’t we make things illegal if they are inherently morally evil? You think you said in your opening pornography is evil. Why would we not criminalize the for the s why why do we criminalize murder? Because then because then somebody that has a different definition of evil than me can criminalize something that I believe in.

1:16:50 · Like for example, uh saying that uh abortion is murder, then you know we should and by the way this is actually happening in the UK. If I go out in the UK and I say abortion is murder and I read the Bible, I’m in the middle of the street, I’m going to get arrested. That’s that’s because leftists like you run the UK.

1:17:11 · People with your same political positions run the UK and they go they go, “You can’t say that. You’re going to hurt someone’s feelings and they’ll be upset and then they won’t vote for the Labor Party anymore. We need the Muslim vote. Don’t tell them they can’t have grooming gangs.” That’s I’m making the argument that you don’t ban what you don’t like, Rachel.

1:17:30 · I’m not banning something because I don’t like it. It’s not that you think I want to ban pornography because I don’t like it or because it’s morally wrong.

1:17:38 · Okay, that’s what I believe too. I think it’s morally wrong.

1:17:41 · Then why wouldn’t you make it illegal?

1:17:43 · Because somebody else might think that’s something I believe in like second.

1:17:47 · So you believe in moral relativism. So everybody gets to have their own version of like second amendment rights. Uh the right to own, you know, guns or whatever. That’s morally wrong because it kills people. And then when they’re in power, they will ban things that they believe are morally wrong. So that’s why you can’t set that precedent.

1:18:08 · It’s almost like this whole everybody voting thing is just a trap and we’re going to end up in a bad position no matter what we do because it’s inherently progressive and it will give us a progressive society where we can’t tell people the truth and we can’t say what’s right and wrong because if we offend someone, they won’t vote for us and if we offend this group, they’re going to start rioting. Do you are you starting to figure it out at all?

1:18:29 · Don’t offend. Uh again, just because you can’t make good arguments that convince people, I’m not the one who’s having trouble making good arguments. That would be you.

1:18:38 · No. Uh you’re saying that we should not allow certain blocks of the population to vote because they would in down the line vote against what you want. And that is obviously not the way to do things. The way to do things is by actually talking to people.

1:18:55 · You’re actually You’re not framing that correctly either, though. I’m not saying, “Oh, don’t let this group don’t let this group vote because then I won’t get what I want.” I I asked you what I believe exactly what you’re saying.

1:19:05 · Let me finish. You just yap and yap and yap. So, let me finish first.

1:19:10 · You said at the beginning you work in politics. Your job is to go around the country convincing especially Spanish-speaking people to vote for Republicans. You want them to vote for certain I educate I educate his yes personally.

1:19:26 · Yes. But in my current role yes I educate uh people on what are the political policies going on who’s promoting them what they are so that they can make educated decisions because with education I’m trying to do the same thing in a different way. And what I’m trying to tell you is that the fastest way to get to the utopian dystopian nightmare that is the United Kingdom is to do what you’re saying we should do. And you are also showing everybody that you’re a moral relativist.

The fastest way to get to dystopia

1:19:57 · No, I think that the quickest way to get to where the UK is is by banning free speech, which is what you just advocated for. And how did they get there?

1:20:06 · And banning things that you don’t like.

1:20:07 · How did they get there, though? Because the UK hadn’t always had laws against free speech. They got that way because of mass immigration, equality, liberalism, all that stuff, right? And that is what you’ll end up address.

1:20:22 · That’s what you’ll end up with every time because you can’t just talk people into doing what’s right. People vote based on incent. No, people vote based on personal incentive.

1:20:32 · I agree with that, too.

1:20:33 · Yes.

1:20:33 · So if there’s a group that comes into the country and they’re getting welfare benefits, if there’s single moms out there that get welfare benefits, they’re always going to be voting for that. Yeah. But the reason we got that stuff is because women voted for it, those things would have never been passed.

1:20:50 · I don’t think that I that having an open border policy for four years like what happened under the previous administration is something that women voted for. It is. It’s something that have you looked at the polling data on men versus women on open did women vote for the Mexican-American border to be completely open so that they voted for all of the people who instituted those policies. No, they did not.

1:21:14 · Yes, they did. Have you looked at border states? You just keep talking about presidential look at border states.

1:21:20 · Would either of you like me to look up any stats on this on the who’s are men or women more in favor of illegal immigration of open of immigration whatever a better one would be uh the percentage of Americans that are for voter ID right it’s 83% nationally so men and women Democrat and Republican for the most part agree on this uh so women are not just these irrational everything women want is terrible and horrible the things you don’t like.

1:21:51 · It’s not about me and what I like. I’m saying there’s an objective right and wrong and there’s objective morality. You’re the one who thinks that we should be pandering to people’s emotions.

Appealing to emotions

1:22:01 · Uh yes, actually, you know what? That’s a great that’s a great lesson to learn is that people don’t care about uh what you say until they know that you care about something, right?

1:22:13 · Women for sure, men are much more open to logical. It’s not it’s not 100%. But that’s why women are far more easily swayed and propagandized by emotion.

1:22:23 · But that means that they I don’t want a country run off of that system. I don’t want that.

1:22:27 · You have to Rachel, it’s called adapting, right? And adapting to the situation. Uh, as somebody that has worked with many different people before, managed teams of people, I know that uh, if I have a group of 10 that they’re going to have different personalities, I have this message that I need to get to them and I need to deliver it in 10 different ways so that it comes across a certain way. This is emotional intelligence, Rachel.

1:22:53 · Oh, yes. Emotional intelligence, which is made up nonsense, which we can um, emotional intelligence is nonsense. Garbage. Garbage pop psychology.

1:23:04 · Okay.

1:23:05 · Do you believe in horoscopes, too?

1:23:06 · Emotional intelligence.

1:23:08 · She believes in horoscopes, too.

1:23:10 · We’re not going to get into a horos We’re not going to get into horoscopes. We’re going to We’re going to I’m not even I’m not even I’m not even going to answer that or entertain it. Let’s stick to the topic really quick. Why don’t we do a uh let’s let a few chats come through and then we can also dive into a different prompt. Uh but first uh we have Jim Bob Smith.

1:23:31 · Thank you for your soup chat. Does the blonde on the right think MAGA and Trump is conservative? She is a conservative in the same liberal way Trump is. Do you want to respond to that?

1:23:42 · Um no. No. They can write anything they want. I usually don’t respond to people.

1:23:47 · Well, I mean the chat.

1:23:49 · It’s a valid point, though. Trump is a ‘9s Democrat and he’s a classical liberal and so are you. Uh, I think that there’s things that I agree with Trump on most things, not all things. I’m not a blind uh follower of any politician, period.

1:24:03 · All right, we have a chat here from Hold on. Brian’s conscious she I should have listened to the unknown soldier when he said to never have this low IQ and it went back on the show. Good thing another Wilson is here. So, this episode act is actually uh making money. Okay, thank you for that. We have a chat here from Desert Jorge. He writes, “Rachel, here are the facts.”

1:24:32 · Uh, Drianna, did I say it right?

1:24:36 · Drianna.

1:24:36 · Mhm.

1:24:37 · Dria.

1:24:38 · Well, that’s just like your opinion. I feel that you just hate yourself and I feel like I know what is right and what is wrong. Shout out to the Discord homies. Thank you, Desert Jorge. You know, I haven’t even said that yet that you know, you hate yourself. I mean, I was planning on using that bomb at some point. Um, but you know, I guess I hate myself.

1:24:57 · And we have one more here. Whatever fan Rachel, I’m passing out the plates for this barbecue cooking. You’re going to do and feed the whole chat from whatever fan. Thank you for that.

1:25:10 · Well, she believes her role is in the kitchen, so I think that’s appropriate.

1:25:13 · In fact, the kitchen is the best room in the house. Can’t wait to get back there. I even got a hotel room with a kitchenette in it.

1:25:18 · Nice.

1:25:19 · Cuz I wanted to cook my own food.

1:25:20 · Nice. Uh guys, if the kitchen is awesome.

1:25:22 · If you’re enjoying the stream, please like the video. Also, quick reminder, $10 display uh $99 and up for reads. Also, really quick, Tiffany, can you just pull up Twitch? Guys, if you’re watching over there on Twitch or you can open up another tab, go to twitch.tv/w whatever. Drop us a follow on a Prime sub if you have one. If you have Amazon Prime, you can link it to your Twitch.

1:25:41 · Quick, free, easy way to support the show every single month. and so that we can put on more debates just like this. And uh if you’re enjoying the stream, of course, like the video. Uh right back to the debate. Let me propose a few unless there’s something that you guys Let’s get back on like no fault divorce.

1:26:00 · Get into some of the prompts here.

1:26:01 · We got to do no fault divorce at some point here.

1:26:04 · Yeah.

1:26:04 · And women’s uh contributions uh to the home and their market value would be a good one to talk about. You also in a social media post you had referred to Rachel as a pickme.

1:26:17 · I don’t know if you guys want to dive into dive into that.

What is a pick-me?

1:26:21 · The the what what is a pickme?

1:26:24 · A pickme is somebody that panders to uh manosphere men’s uh audiences for just the sake of relevancy. um you know and saying yeah women belong in the kitchen you know barefoot and naked uh all the different uh tropes I would never say to be barefoot and naked in the kitchen um and pregnant the kitchen um you know those kinds of those kinds of tropes um everything that a certain demographic of

1:26:56 · people uh want to hear just for relevancy not because it’s something you believe you practice or that is correct Okay. So, you don’t think that I believe or practice the stuff I’m saying?

1:27:09 · Uh, for the most part, yeah. I mean, you’re very against women having a voice in politics. Yet, we’re debating here uh for what, it’s been two hours or something like that.

1:27:20 · I’m against women. I’m against women voting. I am continuing the proud tradition of my of my anti-suffrage.

1:27:28 · But Rachel, you’ve voted before in the past.

1:27:29 · Yes. I’ll explain.

Past voting and hypocrisy

1:27:30 · Ah, okay. Let’s explain that. Go ahead.

1:27:32 · So, first of all, I’m here to shush your mouth 5 seconds, you little yappy machine. I’m getting to it. It’s my turn to talk, though.

1:27:41 · Go for it.

1:27:42 · I’m here to carry on the proud tradition of the majority of women who were against women’s suffrage and did not want to be a political voting block and were very happy with their duties as mothers and wives and community builders and thought that was extremely important. I agree with them wholeheartedly and all their reasons why they didn’t want the vote. Now, yes, I did vote. And yes, I will vote again.

1:28:05 · And I’ll tell you why. To cancel the vote of a feminist somewhere, and and to double my husband’s vote. However you want to look at it. Whoever Andrew votes for, that’s who I vote for. And that’s how I’m going to cancel out some feminist somewhere vote.

1:28:21 · You’re against voting. You’ve voted in the past. We’ll vote in the future. If that’s not hypocrisy, I do not I don’t know what is, Rachel.

1:28:28 · Okay. Let me ask you a question. If I Do you think people watching You just said I’m a hypocrite. Let me address it.

1:28:33 · Yes, you are.

1:28:34 · Uh if I had had an abortion when I was in college, let’s say like you said, when you were in college and you get told that it’s really not bad, it’s not even a life, whatever. I I get pregnant.

1:28:44 · I have an abortion in college. And then later I learn, wait, that is actually murdering a human being. I’m against that and it’s wrong. And I go out and I tell people, don’t get an abortion. It’s wrong. Am I a hypocrite?

1:28:56 · No. because you actually changed your behavior based on new information.

1:29:01 · It’s not a behavior you can change.

1:29:03 · You can change your ideas, what you espouse, and your behavior based on new information. So if I vote, you’d be a hypocrite. If I vote to cancel a feminist vote, that’s hypocritical. be a hypocrite, Rachel, is if you found out this information personally were against abortion now that you know this that it’s bad and murder and then still went out and told women abortion is okay and it’s not murder, then that is hypocrisy. In your case, what we were talking about previously was voting, right? So, you don’t believe women should have the right to vote.

1:29:32 · But I live in reality, Diana. We don’t want to deny reality. You keep telling Andrew he was denying reality. We live in the time and place we live in. Okay.

1:29:41 · So, I have to be here talking to women like you. I have to be here talking to women like you to talk some sense into you to persuade everybody out there that you’re wrong. And I have to go and vote because otherwise only the feminists are going to vote.

1:29:55 · You don’t have to do anything.

1:29:56 · Oh, I do. I do. It’s my duty forcing you.

1:29:59 · It’s my duty.

1:30:00 · Oh, it’s your duty.

1:30:01 · Yes. Uh speaking of which, do you think women have duties?

1:30:04 · Uh women have uh duties. Do you think Well, women have rights. You’ve spent the whole time talking about what rights women have. Do women have duties?

Gendered duties and jobs

1:30:12 · I think adults have duties. Yes.

1:30:14 · Well, what what duties do you think women have?

1:30:16 · Well, you would say men have a duty to protect the homeland.

1:30:19 · What duties do you believe women have?

1:30:21 · Oh, I’m not going to give you any answers. I want to know what you think.

1:30:24 · I know what I think.

1:30:25 · I think that adults have duties and responsibilities as adults.

1:30:29 · But are they the same?

1:30:30 · And in a uh are men’s and women’s duties the same?

1:30:32 · In a family uh context, then those differ, right? or they may be similar depending on the structure that they have set up. So for example, uh in the past when people could afford to live on one income and the man could afford to have a stay-at-home wife, then obviously the roles of men and women differed to make it a working partnership. Right?

1:30:55 · Nowadays, unfortunately, and this is not uh any of our faults other than the government and elite politicians and all that, uh most men and women do have to work within the family structure. So then obviously their duties and their roles and responsibilities within the households have changed. They have to adapt so that things make sense.

1:31:18 · Such a long answer. You could have given me like a fiveword answer. It would have been way better because you like to hear yourself talk.

1:31:24 · Free speech. You like to hear me talk too or else you’re No, I really don’t. Do men have a duty to protect our nation?

1:31:32 · Um I think that Well, hold on. Let me unpack that.

1:31:36 · Whose duty? Whose duty is it to protect the nation?

1:31:40 · How?

1:31:40 · From enemies, foreign and domestic.

1:31:42 · Um yes, foreign and foreign and domestic. So it depends, right? So men can be police officers, so can women. Uh that would be protecting against domestic enemies, right? Police officers, FBI agents, TSA agents.

1:31:59 · I know I know what they are, but do you think both men and women should equally do those things? So your question or is that men’s duty?

1:32:06 · So your question is very broad because both men and women I’ll make it very concise.

1:32:11 · Do do protect this country domestically and uh abroad. When it comes to force, ultimately when it comes to force, there’s a bunch of illegals trying to cross the border. Somebody has to use physical force to stop them. Whose duty is that?

1:32:26 · Um, men or women or both?

1:32:28 · It used to be It used to be that they’d send a lot of ma male foot soldiers, right, in for these kinds of things. Nowadays, we use more technology, right, for those kinds of interventions.

1:32:40 · Always people on the border, though. We have border enforcement agents down there with guns.

1:32:45 · Are you for equality in that job? Do you think we should have equal women and men defending the border?

1:32:51 · I think that there should be a standard of uh can you meet these job requirements? Can you lift certain heavy things? If not, then you do not get that position because it puts us at, you know, that’s fair. Would you say the same thing in the military? Like you can only be a green beret if you can pass the standard. And if you’re a woman and you pass the standard, that’s fine.

1:33:11 · Yeah.

1:33:11 · Okay. Are you aware that there’s never been a woman who has been able to make it through special forces training like green beretss?

1:33:17 · Okay, then they shouldn’t be in that position.

1:33:19 · So if only men can do those things, that green beret position, but I just mentioned that there are plenty of other positions that do defend our country.

1:33:28 · Okay.

1:33:28 · What percentage what percentage of women do you think are on the front lines in war or defending the border?

1:33:36 · Very minimal. I’m not uh what I’m not making the argument that what about critical infrastructure jobs like pouring cement uh getting down in the sewer system and treating the sewer. What about oil rig work? The really heavyduty that keeps society running.

1:33:52 · Yeah. How come only like 2% of those people are women and even in those fields they’re really usually just like holding a sign office?

1:34:00 · I’m not devaluing devaluing in any way men’s contributions to society. I think that’s super important and we should value them because of that. That’s part of my whole argument that women should respect men and thank men for their sacrifices to society as a whole.

1:34:18 · But then why should we give women equal rights with women when men are the only ones that can do those critical things?

1:34:25 · Sure.

1:34:25 · Sure. Okay. Now that you asked me why should um women also have contributed to society in so many different important ways besides a very important role of historically being the primary caretakers of children and being a homemaker and raising a home which is the pillar of a strong society. Let’s talk about that. Right? You know, we’ve got women inventors uh that have contributed to things like, you know, dishwasher, just things that we use every single day to make.

1:34:55 · Are you aware of the number of female patents versus male patent holders?

1:34:59 · Yes.

1:34:59 · Um Josephine Cochran dishwasher.

1:35:03 · Let’s see. Um we’ve got uh Florence Payart. You know, she improved early refrigeration systems. So, because of this woman, we can not have food that goes uh that gets bet anything if we look these up.

1:35:18 · who actually did the work. But okay, let me let me let me finish this because we’re talking about contributions to society. Obviously, I can’t memorize all these. I don’t have uh that kind of a memory, but you know, there’s a woman who created the refrigerator. Kevlar, body armor material. Stephanie Quallic used in bulletproof vests that our brave brave men use in battle, uh helmets, aircraft components. Uh a woman created the first computer algorithm. Ada Love Lace. She wrote the first algorithm for a machine.

1:35:48 · It’s considered the first computer programmer and without this there is no modern software.

1:35:54 · This is all very impressive but beside the industry. No, it’s not.

1:35:57 · It is totally beside I’m talking about I’m talking about talking about contributions to society. No, you’re talking my question to you about Gracehopper. Let me finish. Gracehopper which created the cobalt uh programming language with which banking systems run which government infrastructures use. So our financial system literally depends on this. Um we’ve got frequency hopping technology uh Lamar which is the foundation of Wi-Fi.

1:36:27 · Did you know that that’s false? I can’t believe she did the HDI Lamar thing. That was a man who did that. No, she did not invent that. No, that’s you can fact check that. co-founder with a man frequency hopping technology hedi Lamar there you go you can look it up political if you actually look it up it’s well known fake feminist original argument is

1:36:48 · you know if this is what men contribute to society this is why they get right that’s not what I said I’m presenting I didn’t say what people contribute I asked you about force and you dodged and obfuscated and stonewalled to evade my question only men also force is the reason why people should vote listen to the question, sweet cheeks, and then you can give me an answer.

1:37:09 · Yeah, if you’re very Yeah, you’re very pretty. Congratulations. But this is a debate, not a beauty pageant. So, you got to try to focus.

1:37:17 · So, men are the only ones who men are the only ones who can do the hard forceful jobs that provide us with security and all of this technological infrastructure that allows you to pretend that we are equal with men. We are not equal with men. That doesn’t it doesn’t mean that we don’t equal in value. I agree. But that relates to duties. Equal in value relates to our duties to society.

The helpfulness of men

1:37:45 · Men’s duties to society are things like building and maintaining infrastructure, providing safety and security, keeping out enemies who are going to come in and you know like especially pre-industrial revolution. Oh, you’re not going to cut me off after all that. Come on. Prior to industry and technology, men literally had to keep the barbarian hordes away from the gates. Okay? Like to keep women safe because we’re people think that we’ve escaped this natural fundamental thing and we haven’t.

1:38:16 · It still requires force at the end of the day. You still need men out there. Look at Iran. Look at Ukraine. Look at the borders. All the national borders. You still need men with force to keep society going. That’s men’s duty. Agree.

1:38:29 · What are women’s duties to society?

1:38:32 · I just I just named them. They have historically been primarily homemakers, right? And also, women have a duty that men can’t do, period, which is child birth.

Return to duties and solving the problem of population

1:38:42 · I’m glad you brought that up. Why aren’t they having any babies anymore?

1:38:45 · Because the situation for them is not apt, is not appropriate. It is a lot more difficult, especially uh when it comes to the economy, to to have kids.

1:38:55 · one and two like I mentioned at the beginning of the show uh we need women need strong men to lead right and to be in a family with and unfortunately unfortunately uh the men of today I’m not saying all of them but the men of today are quite literally uh not the same as uh men 50

1:39:18 · years ago in fact in fact and there’s actual you can pull this up Brian but I have it written here too Um, men are actually physically different than they were years back. As in men nowadays on average have uh lower testosterone than their grandfathers.

1:39:35 · Um, so for you to say that because uh men have to be the ones leading and all of this, you’re trying to say that, oh, women are not having kids because of women’s right to vote or something like that, which is crazy. I’m saying that we need to build strong men back up.

1:39:53 · We need to encourage them to take care of themselves, to get healthy, to build up their hormones, get their testosterone right, get unaddicted to pornography, drugs, alcohol, vices, and then women will naturally want to have families again. But right now, but right now, they will. Okay. But right now there isn’t as high of a percentage of men that women want to what you call submit to right to get into a marriage with.

1:40:22 · So women are women are not fulfilling their duty to society because man bad.

1:40:27 · Did I just did I say the men just need to get better. The men need to get better. They need to improve. The men are in a sad sorry state. And that’s why the women don’t want to have babies.

1:40:36 · It’s it’s a fact. I’m not saying man bad. I’m saying why aren’t women fulfilling their duty?

1:40:42 · Why are women not fulfilling their duties? Is it because the men aren’t good enough?

1:40:45 · I’m saying men unhealthy in fact. And uh this is something men are unhealthy and that’s why women aren’t that’s why the birth rate is so low cuz the men are unhealthy.

1:40:54 · Let me Are you going to let me finish or let’s Are you ever going to get to a point?

1:40:58 · Yes. You just need to stop interrupting.

1:41:01 · Um, so yes, for example, um, one in 10 kids nowadays has autism, is born with autism out of all births.

1:41:10 · Can you just ever answer a question without going on?

1:41:14 · Can you relax and let me make my point?

1:41:17 · I’m just going to take a bathroom break while she laughs and then I’ll just come back and ask you the same question.

1:41:22 · Um, fantastic. For those uh, watching, one in 10 kids are born with autism in this country. Unfortunately um unfortunately the men’s health and the women’s health is very important when it comes to uh fertility when it comes to the health of a woman’s pregnancy and the men’s health prior to conception is extremely important um in making sure that that baby is healthy.

1:41:48 · Alcohol consumption is the uh is one of the largest causes of uh mutations and defects in men’s uh swimmers. And so if men want to uh help the woman have a smoother pregnancy, a healthier pregnancy, then they have to take care of their of their health first. Women do too. I’m not saying it’s like women should just do whatever.

1:42:14 · Um, but again, this is responsibility on both people’s parts and women might not be having kids as much as they did before because again, the economy is freaking terrible.

1:42:31 · Women don’t want to have kids that are going to struggle or go without. And men need to realize this and know that, okay, maybe I can’t be a man that provides everything and can afford a stay-at-home wife, but at the very least going, I can help uh in the household and we can contribute financially and also with labor in the household.

1:42:55 · That’s what I’m saying. Okay, Rachel, so I’m just going to defeat everything you said with one simple thing. I’ll just point out the fact that the only people having children are the poorest people. So if the problem was money, we would see rich people having all the babies and poor people would not be having the babies. So you’re absolutely wrong on that. In fact, we’ve done studies are more responsible.

The reason for the birth crisis

1:43:15 · Okay, now it’s my turn. Now it’s my turn. They’ve done studies on this because dropping birth rates around the world are an extremely serious problem.

1:43:24 · There are think tanks around the world, including the World Health Organization that are saying this could be civilizational ending for some countries. So they’ve studied it at length and the number one coralate around the world regardless of culture, finances, religion, any other factor is women’s access to higher education and the job market.

1:43:43 · This means that when you tell young women to spend all of their fertile years going to college and preparing for a job and then get into the workforce and establish your career before you think about marriage and family, what you end up with is we have now women getting married and having babies for the first time at around the age 30, 31 when in my grandma’s generation, shout out to grandma, she’s turning 100 on April 1st. Love you grandma.

1:44:11 · She uh in her generation the first age of marriage was around 22 and you got you had a baby usually that same year.

1:44:20 · So now you’re also arguing against women’s education.

1:44:22 · Don’t put words in my mouth. Let me finish. You just yappity yapped that whole time.

1:44:26 · Rachel, I ran. So it’s an option, you know.

1:44:28 · So the truth is it’s not finances. It’s not uh men are weak, men need more testosterone, men need to get their bag, men need to blah blah blah. That’s mindblowing to me that you would ever pin this on men because you’re like you’re like the men at Don’t interrupt me. Don’t interrupt me. Don’t interrupt me. Don’t interrupt me. Don’t interrupt.

1:44:52 · Do you want a bathroom break and I can just talk?

1:44:54 · Go for it. Go.

1:44:55 · Okay.

1:44:56 · You say the we would have more babies if the men would lead. But then you say, “I’m not going to follow a man. I have my own mind and I’m a strong independent woman and I’m just as equal as he is and I’m I think it should be equal.” How can you be equal and he could lead at the same time?

1:45:11 · Yeah, that’s that’s such a crazy concept for you to understand, but it is possible.

1:45:16 · Okay, tell me how.

1:45:19 · I am in a relationship with a man that I also look up to that I also that leads and at the same time uh we both vote.

1:45:30 · What is what is the argument you’re trying to make that you can’t How does he lead if you don’t submit?

1:45:35 · Who the heck is talking about submission? I’m talking about voting, Rachel. And you just made an argument again against women’s education now. So now it’s not just women not being able to vote and women not having a should. I did not make a should argument. I just told you what the reason is, but also women shouldn’t have access to you know the difference between an ought statement and an is statement. I said the reason is this. Does that mean I’m saying women ought not be allowed to be educated?

Basic philosophical questions

1:46:04 · Is that okay? I’m asking you that question. Do you believe that?

1:46:07 · No. I think that women I think that women have this is another big myth that Drianna probably believes that women were that women were denied education. Do you think that there was no equality in education until recently or something like that?

1:46:21 · No. Um No, actually. And in fact, women hold more degrees than men.

1:46:26 · Yeah. But what about what about 100 years ago or 150 years ago?

1:46:29 · I’m not exactly sure. But I do know that uh education was heavily influenced by people that made it so uh it’s harder to get an education. So it’s more of an elite thing. Um and that’s a whole thing. The Rockefellers and whatnot. But that’s true. But some of the first colleges in this country were women’s only colleges and there were also a lot of black colleges had access and then Rockefellers got involved and it got cut to like 10%. If we didn’t have a birth rate problem in 1860 when all the women could go to college, why do we have it now?

1:47:00 · Because of a hundred years of feminist propaganda from people like you and Taylor Swift and Beyonce and Camala Harris.

1:47:07 · No, I’m saying now we have this problem because women like you and I heard you say on and I take major issue with this.

1:47:15 · you somebody finally pulled it out of you in the dating talk podcast that you do look down on women like me who don’t have a degree and aren’t in the workforce having you said look if you all don’t have a relation you said you don’t feel that women who don’t have their own money and career and all this stuff you never said that I dare you to like I I don’t have cash but I guess we could say you looked down on them but you said you did not consider them successful like you or something like that you know Rachel what I do remember saying is in Brian Ryan’s hypothetical

1:47:46 · fun thing that he does on every podcast where he’s like, “Oh, do you think women should uh on the first time that they’re over at my house cook and clean and do uh laundry for them? Do you think you should women should do that?” And I’m like, “No, that’s ridiculous.” And most people that listen to that know it’s freaking ridiculous. And women that do say, “Yeah, you know, I would totally like first time over a guy’s house do his laundry.” Uh yes, I do believe those are something wrong with it.

1:48:15 · It started that way, but eventually through the course of the conversation, you basically said outside of that parameter, that is it.

1:48:23 · Okay, I’ll just take your your word for that. But people can go back and look at that. It’s actually one of the So women, so we’ve established that the fact of what’s actually true is that women are not not having children because the men are too weak. They need to up their game. They need to be better leaders. They need more testosterone.

1:48:41 · the men are lacking and that’s why the women aren’t having babies. The women aren’t having babies because they go to college and they build careers first and they delay their first child until they’re 30s. And if you do that, there’s a whole bunch of reasons why that doesn’t work. The first is you’re already past the majority of your fertility window. After 35, even with IVF, the odds of conceiving just go down drastically every year. That’s a biological fact.

1:49:07 · The second thing is when you build your life around this idea that you have to have goals and be successful and you’ve spent all your life, everything you’re doing is towards your career for that purpose. Women find it extremely hard to flip a switch and suddenly be a mom and a stay-at-home mom or like dedicate their lives to something outside themselves, which is what our duty is.

Education before marriage

1:49:30 · So, Rachel, uh it is statistical fact, and you can look this up, um that women with higher uh education degrees have lower rates of divorce. So, since I am pro- marriage and pro-successful marriage, not just get married all willy-nilly. Um that is why I do believe it’s a good thing that women have uh education.

1:49:51 · And it makes sense, right? you know, you are educated and therefore you want to establish yourself before starting a family so that it is something that is strong and again didn’t you say you’re against women going to college didn’t you when at the beginning I said we something about college and you said I agree I think college is a scam too I think you shouldn’t go unless you’re getting a STEM degree yeah that’s how many women get STEM degrees how how do those two things how are they

1:50:21 · you just said you think women should go to college and get an education Uh-huh. Uh, okay. But isn’t college a scam?

1:50:27 · Unless you’re going for a STEM degree.

1:50:29 · Did you get a STEM degree?

1:50:30 · Uh, no. Okay.

1:50:31 · And I got lucky.

1:50:32 · Do you know what Do you know what percentage of STEM degrees are earned by women? It’s like 20%.

1:50:37 · See, I’m not a hypocrite because I’m not telling people to do something that I’m an exception for.

1:50:43 · But I didn’t even accuse you of hypocrisy. I’m just saying most women don’t go for STEM. The vast majority 80% of women’s degrees are liberal arts nonsense.

1:50:51 · A lot of them. Yes. But still. So why would we push that?

1:50:55 · The fact still stands that the more education, formal education women have, the lower the divorce rate.

1:51:02 · But do you think higher? Let’s address that. Let’s address that cuz do you think that do you not want people to not get divorced?

1:51:08 · Do you think you need college to not get divorced?

1:51:11 · No, I’m just saying that there’s that correlation.

1:51:15 · That a correlation doesn’t equal a cause. So telling women telling women to go to college because you have a lower chance of getting divorced would be That would be like the ice cream problem. Have you ever heard of the ice cream problem?

1:51:28 · No. You’re saying uh women aren’t having kids because they’re going to college.

1:51:32 · Yes.

1:51:32 · And they’re focused on career and building career cuz we tell them if you’re smart and successful, this is what you’re going to do. And if you’re a stay-at-home mom, you’re a loser and you’re lame and you’re you’re going to get abused. You’re going to be vulnerable. But uh when I have daughters um I am absolutely going to tell them you need to have something uh of value that you can depend on because uh

1:52:00 · because you can’t just basically put yourself up as uh somebody that is dependent on neither the government nor another person right so yes I would absolutely tell boys and girls set yourself up for life in whichever way you see fit it could be getting a STEM degree in college. It could be going to a vocation, no middle school, doing some kind of trade, business, whatever.

1:52:22 · Absolutely establish yourself before coming into uh a relationship with somebody else. And if you do decide to be What do you mean by that though?

1:52:32 · Establish yourself. Do you have to have like a 401k? Do you have to have a savings? What do you have?

1:52:37 · Some kind of just any old job.

1:52:39 · Some Yeah. Some kind of way for you to be able to to depend on yourself. God forbid the worst happens, you know. But you can’t do that. Do you know what the average jobs are that people work? The average person makes for women it’s like 40k a year. For men it’s like 60k a year. Okay. Most of us have like basic ass jobs that we can get straight out of high school. I did that. I didn’t need to go to college and get into debt.

1:53:04 · Which is the other big problem. Women come up for you.

1:53:08 · It’s the same thing now. Yes, it is. It is the same thing now. the thing the jobs that are in demand are not liberal arts degrees. In fact, there’s a ton of data showing that if you have liberal arts degrees, you have the hardest time finding a job because you don’t have practical skills. And employers don’t even want that anymore. They look for people who try to start businesses.

1:53:28 · They look for people who are selfarters, smart, self-educated. I’m debating you today with nothing but a cosmetology license.

1:53:36 · Fantastic. I agree that having degrees does not change facts and having a title does not make for any kind of an argument. I’m not.

1:53:46 · So, if you can get a retail management job by the time you’re 21, why can’t you get married and start having kids?

1:53:53 · Sure.

1:53:53 · You know, what I’m saying is that uh having kids and being a stay-at-home mom, obviously very valuable. It does take you out of the workforce and if you were to get back in it, then it’d make it a lot more difficult. So, if women decide to be stay-at-home moms, they need some kind of protection, agreement, guarantee before marriage with the husband to make sure that the kids primarily are taken care of, god

1:54:23 · forbid, the worst happens, which is uh a split or a divorce. So, that is what I’m saying. I’m just being a logical uh reasonable person and I’d prescribe the same thing for men. You know, you’re not being logical and you’re not being reasonable and we’re going to figure this out together. Okay. So, how how are we going to combat birth rates dropping like a rock and tell women you need to have your own money. You need to have a fail safe. You need to have a backup plan. You can’t really leave the job market because if you do, it makes it really hard to get back.

1:54:53 · Let’s work on solutions, right, for this country. Let’s focus on this country at the very least. It’s the one we care about. Um, I think it’d be very helpful for women and men in this country if we weren’t importing the third world or filling jobs that Americans can fill.

1:55:08 · Yeah.

1:55:08 · Why do we have to do that? Do you know why? Cuz we’re not having babies. And if the women were having babies, we wouldn’t have to import our entire labor force from the third world.

The labor shortage

1:55:17 · Because we have sellout politicians that don’t answer to us and answer to foreign interests. And that’s why they’re doing it. We have a labor shortage. That’s real. That’s a real thing. We have a serious, not just us, almost the whole world.

1:55:33 · We’re experiencing a birth rate collapse. And it’s created labor shortages and it’s created supply chain problems.

1:55:39 · Why would women want to have kids if you know we’re in if they know that the market for the kids when they do get born, they’re not going to have the same opportunities they had growing up because we’ve got shitty politicians that are importing people from all over the world. Women aren’t having babies because shitty politicians are allowing too many immigrants.

1:55:58 · Uh, that’s a big Is there any point at which it’s the women’s choices to sherk their duty to have children? Are we ever going to hold the women accountable and say maybe the values are wrong? Maybe maybe the women should say, you know what, I think it’s a really valuable thing to produce another generation to keep this beautiful, wonderful world that I get to enjoy going.

1:56:20 · Beautiful concept and I agree with it.

1:56:21 · However, well, you’ll talk about what men should do. Why won’t we talk about what women should do?

1:56:26 · Women should also, again, contribute to their society. They should There’s one thing we need women to do more of, and it’s have babies. We don’t need more media girls. We don’t need more psychology majors. We don’t need more retail workers.

1:56:40 · How do you convince women to to have more kids?

1:56:44 · Well, I’ll tell you, please.

1:56:45 · So, in a famous in this economy here, famous interview in the 19 Well, you can’t. You got to fix the whole system.

Fixing the birth crisis

1:56:52 · That’s the point.

1:56:53 · You can’t fix the entire world. You don’t have to fix the whole world. I’m going to tell you for the US.

1:56:58 · Yeah. Okay. I’ll tell you if you can just listen.

1:57:01 · Sure.

1:57:01 · In the 70s, Betty Ferdan and Simone de Bouvo had a famous interview where Simone said, “I think the problem is that we give women the option to stay home.” I’m paraphrasing, but she said, “I don’t think the world should be that way at all. I think that if we give that option, too many women will choose it, and that’s not how society will run.” I agree with her and I believe that I think if women have the option to stay home that they would I think if they had the opportunity to be mothers and be and be happy with being wives, mothers, having their sisters around them.

1:57:32 · Here’s what happened. We pushed women into the workforce in the 1970s in huge numbers.

1:57:38 · Who did that? Was the US government and people that wanted more tax? The government, the CIA, and the universities who wanted this big massive college. So we agree on that. the big massive college loan kind of scam where you tell the women take out a loan, go to college so you can have financial they wanted more taxpayers paying into the system.

1:57:57 · Exactly.

1:57:57 · So what we do is that created a two-inccome econ economy. The reason it’s and there were other factors in the e economy declining but we’ve had ups and downs economically throughout all of history to also include technology right AI all that stuff industrialization.

1:58:15 · Uhhuh.

1:58:16 · Yeah.

1:58:16 · Well, the point is that some women have always worked and some women can and should work. I don’t see any problem with it. Mothers, if we take mothers out of the workforce, we used to have things like breadwinner laws where only the men were responsible for uh the debts in the family. We used to have things like clauses in women’s employment contracts where once you were married, we consider you taken care of financially by your husband because he’s the one responsible for that, not you.

1:58:43 · And so we’re going to give that job to an unmarried woman, a widow, somebody who actually needs the job because women’s jobs were limited. They we didn’t have this huge equal workforce with 50% men and 50% women.

1:58:57 · Basically, it’s a little off, but that’s basically what we have now. That created a permanent twoinome trap where now women like me who want to stay home can’t afford it. And many women who I hear from all over the country saying, “I would love to stay home with my kids, but it’s really tough.”

1:59:14 · This is not something you can change and fix today. The reality of this problem is that it’s going to be a multi-generational fix. And it starts with what we value. And we need to stop valuing careerwoman, careerism, Sarah, Jessica Parker, Sex in the City.

1:59:30 · How do you sell that to women?

1:59:32 · Well, you don’t. See, this is the problem.

1:59:33 · How do you take away their options to choose?

1:59:35 · No. Nope. It’s not like that. every the the way the world works is based off incentive.

1:59:40 · Yeah.

1:59:40 · Just like how are you going to convince the men not to watch porn? You’re not. It’s addictive. And people have base instincts and they incentive to have a family that’s functional in the future and be a functional adult. That should be But we’ve we’ve convinced women like you that what they should value is success, get your bag, have finances.

1:59:59 · I didn’t say that. I said you’re 32. You you’ve been married. You could be married, but you have other values. You don’t have children for a reason. I would assume married permanently. I think the single most important decision a person could make is who they decide to have children with. I think that’s the most important.

2:00:18 · And so yes, I think both men and women should be extremely selective and choosy with that decision because that’s going to ultimately uh determine whether the child grows up in a stable household. So, I am not going to pressure women to just have kids as soon as they press.

2:00:40 · I’m talking about setting up incentives for the things we want to see. And what we do by giving we give women specifically, we give women free college loans. We give them uh free loans to start businesses. We have done all this affirmative action stuff for the last 50 years to push and push and push and incentivize women to focus on career, focus on joining the workforce, reject motherhood. It’s icky. Kids are gross and they’re and they’re it’s hard and you don’t want to do that. It’s going to ruin your body. There’s so much anti anti-mhood propaganda.

2:01:15 · the whole pop culture. You can’t name a single pop star or movie star who’s an influential woman who doesn’t have the boss girl strong woman through your sexuality message. All of them do. Be sexy and hot like me and and make your money and ew men are gross and they’re stupid and Sabrina Carpenter telling the whole world men are useless.

2:01:35 · You’re broad, which I disagree with, but again, you’re broadly generalizing women this, women that. I’m saying the incentives societywide through the pop culture, through the education system, through the government, every institution tells women motherhood is for stupid losers and strong woman sexy girl boss babe stuff is for winners. And we have to change those incentives. If we truly value family, wait, just let me finish. Just let me finish. I’m not saying force. I’m saying incentivize.

2:02:06 · You should know this if you work in politics. If we incentivize people to come across the border cuz they’re going to get free we’re going to get more of that. You get more of whatever you incentivize and you get less of whatever you stigmatize. We need to stigmatize sexy girl boss babe stuff. We need to by taking back the institutions and the culture.

2:02:27 · How?

2:02:28 · That’s what you said, right?

2:02:29 · Yeah. How are you going to do that?

2:02:31 · By by me going on these podcasts and writing books and talking to people like you and now there’s a bunch they shouldn’t vote. That’s how you’re gonna That’s how you’re gonna get them to go back to Do you know how many women actually don’t want to vote? It’s a lot. Okay. You would be shocked.

2:02:44 · Yeah, I’m sure. But it’s not.

2:02:46 · They just don’t care that much. The truth is whenever we have a dating panel, Brian, um the majority of women most of the girls when you say how, no, I don’t want to vote. If you say to if you say to all the Can you let me talk?

2:03:00 · Please.

2:03:00 · They’re not curated.

2:03:01 · Yes.

2:03:02 · Wait, what do you mean?

2:03:03 · She’s saying that you specifically pick girls. This is what everybody thinks about the podcast. And I I wish this was true because I’m so blackpilled and I wish I wasn’t. But all the young women I speak to, not just here, but on other podcasts and other debates that I do, you ask them who they voted for, they usually haven’t. They usually don’t vote until they’re older and married. It doesn’t matter who some of the college radicals do. The facts are that a majority of women vote and do care about voting because they vote Republican, because they vote Democrat, and because they voted more than men have.

2:03:35 · What I’m telling you is I’m not trying to convince women the way that you’re thinking. I’m talking about systemic incentive. I’m saying do things like what Hungary did where if you have three or more children, you never pay taxes again. Um, we make marriage uh an ecclesiastical governed thing again where it’s no longer this this no fault government that you want. Absolutely not.

2:04:00 · You go to your church that I want.

2:04:01 · What’s the thing that I want?

2:04:02 · You you are you like government marriage with prenuptual agreements and no fault divorce.

2:04:08 · Um I believe that the government should have never gotten into marriages.

2:04:12 · Okay.

2:04:12 · Who should have governed marriage then? I believe that I believe that because you just told me you believe this and this and that and it’s said and it’s inaccurate. Um I believe in people being able to get out of bad marriages.

2:04:28 · Absolutely.

2:04:29 · Do you think they couldn’t before?

2:04:30 · And and uh without previous without certain legal protections. Let’s say that you are in a domestically in a marriage where you have domestic violence, domestic abuse, but you don’t have the money to get a lawyer because there’s usually financial abuse involved as well. So there’s no way for you to even So there’s usually no way emotional abuse, too.

Ab*se and divorce

2:04:54 · So there’s no way No, I actually have the data on that, too. So there’s no way for you to prove that you’re being abused. And so that goes against their their rights. And I don’t want women to be stuck in bad marriages. So do you know how many marriages I agree do you know how many women were granted divorce in the year 1900? So this is before the 19th before no fault. I don’t care because the it’s irrelevant to the point that I’m making which is 55,700 divorces in the year 1900.

2:05:23 · You can’t tell me that women couldn’t get divorces. Yes, they could.

2:05:28 · Good. I’m not saying they just didn’t because it was highly stigmatized. It wasn’t practical. and the incentives were not there. And what we’ve built now is a system that incentivizes divorce. It incentivizes waiting till your 30s to even start a family. And that’s what needs to change. So, we need to shift it and make it cool again to get married.

2:05:50 · We need to make it cool to get married young, to stay together. We should not be allowing or glorifying only fans, chicks, Instagram bikini babes, all that needs to go. I I absolutely agree with all of that. It’s something that I practice in my personal life, obviously.

2:06:07 · Um but again, the answer the the solution to to things is never to do anything by force or by taking away options, right? Do we want strong marriages? Yes. Uh do we want divorces?

2:06:21 · No. Do we think that it’s a good idea to ban divorces so that people are stuck in abusive relationships? Do you think I want a divorce ban or do you think I cuz that’s not what I want. What I want is where you have like we always had for all of human history until 50 years ago.

2:06:39 · If you want a divorce, ideally it should be through your church. You should have to go to your ecclesiastical authority. So I’m an Orthodox Christian. If Andrew and I um and this I know a woman that this happened to that there was actually legitimate horrific abuse. She went to her priest and to her bishop and she said, “This is what’s going on.” She had other people who were willing to say yes, we think this is going on. She was granted a divorce because of the extreness of the situation. What we have now, what does that have to do with the kids?

2:07:08 · What happens with the kids? What happens with dividing uh assets that they both had? Is the church does it have any kind of dominion over those kinds of decisions? It does not.

2:07:17 · No. Historically, this is not it. But what we’re talking about is prescriptions. And I’m telling you the way we fix this is if my church governed my marriage, the church would say, “Okay, we’re going to help take care of you financially.” This is what used to happen under most churches. If there was a situation where the woman was abandoned, abused, say the husband was crazy, uh, violent, any of these things that’s like uh that it depends. That depends.

2:07:46 · Would you be okay from a religious? Do you believe it’s okay or do you believe that people should stay in marriages when the other person is cheats on them or commits adultery?

2:07:58 · Well, so adultery can be a reason for divorce. It depends and that’s a personal thing that you have to go through with your spiritual father because that’s the number one cause of divorce by the way. Yes, it is.

Reasons for divorce

2:08:11 · No, the number one reason that women give for why they leave is growing apart, irreconcilable differences. uh we just don’t get along. Uh infidelity is more like number three or number four. I’ve researched this quite a lot as well. And I’ve had this debate multiple times. It’s usually like third, fourth, or fifth on the list depending on what survey you look at. Number one.

2:08:32 · No. All No, it’s not. Infidelity is not number one. Absolutely not. It’s like third or fourth on the list. But uh from a religious perspective, of course, it’s immoral. We don’t say cheating is okay.

2:08:43 · We don’t say cheating is good. But it doesn’t automatically mean that in every case of infidelity, you must divorce. I know couples and everybody knows couples where they’ve worked past that. Now, if it’s a serial if it’s if it’s a serial problem or if there’s a good reason, uh there’s a lot of factors. This is a personal thing. This is why it shouldn’t be done through the government. It should be done through the church, through your priest and your bishop who know you and know your situation and can mediate disagreements because you don’t just break up a family for for any reason.

2:09:16 · Just one of one of the many things I you can go ahead and look it up top reasons for divorce 3 found that when divorced individuals are asked open-endedly to provide their reasons for divorce the most cited reasons were infidelity 21.6% incompatibility 19.2% 2% drinking or drug use, which I also agree with, 10.6% um in most studies, infidelity is the number one reason.

2:09:41 · You would have to give me your source and I would have to look at it. It’s most likely going to be a survey.

2:09:46 · It’s going to be most likely a survey of about 100 to 300 people.

2:09:51 · This is from the NIH wants me to go through here.gov. Um well and we we do have to differentiate between for example surveys and what is actually cited in the legal divorce proceedings.

2:10:06 · You were wrong where right here. Uh so the results of the study uh reasons for divorce table one presents the major contributors for divorce list. Overall the results indicate that the most often cited reasons for divorce at the individual level were lack of commitment 75%.

Differentiating the statistics

2:10:24 · Another pretty word for infidelity.

2:10:25 · That’s not infidelity. Lack of commitment means you don’t think the person is fully in it with you. That’s what that means.

2:10:32 · Sure.

2:10:33 · Cuz if you kept reading, the next one down the list is infidelity. So the first reason in this particular study, which I’ll have to go over it, but the number one is lack of commitment. That 75% for lack of commitment. So the majority is I feel like he’s not really trying like I’m really trying. That’s the definition you’re giving it.

2:10:56 · Um, infidelity is commitment 59% and too much conflict in arguing 57. So people can give multiple reasons. So what you’re getting with these is we already had a problem.

2:11:09 · Mhm.

2:11:10 · We already were fighting.

2:11:12 · And then one or both of us cheated. It does not say he cheated on her. It says infidelity. That could mean they both cheated. So, one thing I’ve noticed about you is you’re actually not very good at reading data and interpreting it. You’re not actually good at reading a study and understanding what it says.

2:11:28 · Uh, no. You first thing there says lack of commitment. Um, and yeah, and you interpreted that as infidelity when the next is it not?

2:11:38 · That does not mean there was infidelity.

2:11:40 · See what I mean?

2:11:41 · Might I just offer clarification from what what I looked up? So, there there’s two different categories. So now commitment to loyalty or faithfulness could be a thing but what and Rachel is correct separated into two categories different categories. Lack of commitment is one category infidelity cheating is another so extrammarital affairs but so under lack of commitment it describes it as when the partner stops trying uh they feel unappreciated or uh decide the relationship is no longer a priority.

2:12:12 · So I guess in this context, lack of commitment doesn’t necessarily imply uh a uh infidelity or cheating necessarily.

2:12:24 · That’s the By the way, that’s the exact same data that I cited in a portion. We just did a whole brand new debate course on debateuniversity.com. And all you guys who bought part one, you can get a big discount on part two, which is all about debating feminism. And in my section, I use that same data to uh argue my position. So that’s how I knew that she was wrong on that and that she was kind of mis misreading or twisting.

2:12:48 · The original uh question and point was do you believe that women or just people in a marriage that suffer infidelity from the other partner should not be able to divorce their No, I would never say that you should never be able to. It depends. I wouldn’t say that every instance of infidelity must necessitate divorce though either.

2:13:08 · I’m not saying that. I’m saying should they be able to.

2:13:10 · Sometimes it depends. Sometimes you do.

2:13:13 · Sometimes it’s up to what you randomly decide.

2:13:18 · I think marriage should be governed by the church and if it’s governed by ecclesiastical authority, this country runs.

2:13:24 · It should though and it did. So I’m saying let’s go back to that because that was better.

2:13:29 · This country is not run by your personal Christian orthodox.

2:13:34 · That’s not what I mean. Your church. So if you’re Mormon, you get married in the Mormon church and that ecclesiastical authority governs your marriage. And if there’s a divorce, they help sort out who gets what and what happens. And they’re they are responsible for supporting women and children in the case of the husband doing something that would necessitate a divorce. That’s how it was all of history, right?

2:13:57 · Non-religious couples or some non do non-denominational Christian couple gets married. uh somebody cheats or do you believe that they are allowed to legally to get divorced or they should be allowed to?

2:14:13 · I don’t recognize secular marriage. It’s the same thing to me as gay marriage.

2:14:17 · All you’re doing but it exists even if you don’t recognize what it is. But what it is reality, right? But what it is is not marriage. What you have as a secular person going through the state, which is why Brian’s against it and a lot of men are are opting out. It’s a gay roommate agreement. It’s a very homosexual thing in nature if you ask me. Uh you are like uh let’s make a boyfriend girlfriend living arrangement like like Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory how he would make the roommate agreement. It’s a glorified roommate agreement that’s enforced by the state. There’s no religious duty.

2:14:51 · There’s no moral duty. It’s not a lifelong commitment. You have an easier time getting out of your cell phone contract or out of a divorce in a secular situation than you do breaking your cell phone contract. You have better luck. You went Yeah. You got a divorce that you just signed the paper and now you’re divorced. You have a harder time with Verizon. It’s harder to break up with Verizon.

The ease of divorce

2:15:13 · Thankfully, I uh the first time around, even though, you know, we were young and picked people that we grew apart from, at least I picked a decent person. And so it was, you know, we’re still amicable with each other and would be there for each other in any kind of situation. But that’s good.

2:15:30 · But um I’m just saying like all it is now is it’s just a basic roommate agreement and then you go I don’t like this anymore.

2:15:38 · So it’s done.

2:15:39 · It’s a really entangled legal situation especially when uh shared assets exist and especially if kids exist. You try to you try to get into a divorce proceeding when kids are when kids are involved and it’s it takes years to resolve.

2:15:58 · In my case, it only took maybe less than 6 months, but yeah, it’s just it’s horrible. But it should my view is that it should only be for serious situations. You’re in danger. There’s something drastically. I don’t. But we’re talking about who should and I’m saying it should be the church because marriage is a lifelong religious sacrament. If all you want is a roommate agreement, I don’t care what you do.

2:16:25 · I don’t make policy recommendations based on religious arguments.

2:16:30 · Even if I even if I hold the same values as you do, that’s not you’re doing the thing that you’re doing the thing that so many people like uh not so aerodite tries to do this. I have a set of morals for myself and what I think is right or wrong. I have a set of morals, but I’m not going to force it on anyone. I think every we should just default to secularism and that’s another big reason why we’re in this mess.

2:16:53 · So, we do have sep separation of church and state for a reason. Um, is morality objective or not?

2:17:00 · Uh, I think that morality is dependent on you know what our beliefs come from from God, right? like basically whatever you know what I think there’s objective right and wrong regardless of what you believe according to your religion okay if that’s the case if if we know

2:17:19 · objectively what’s right and wrong why wouldn’t we organize society along that and not just what this person might think is wrong on that day and then Bob thinks wrong next let me let me uh name some of those things it is objectively wrong to kill a person unless it is in self-defense.

2:17:38 · Why?

2:17:38 · Right? Because people have inherent uh human value. So that is I don’t care what your religion is.

2:17:44 · And you think that’s based on God.

2:17:46 · If you think I think that’s an objective moral uh basically decision, what if someone doesn’t believe that?

2:17:53 · What if somebody says I don’t think that people have inherent human? I’m giving you an example of things that I believe are across the board that I don’t think uh matter or change depending on a person’s religion like uh the right of a person to live unless of course you know they’ve threatened somebody else and and whatnot. So I think that’s an example of that and you asked to name one.

2:18:14 · So yes, objective morality does exist. there’s uh you know you shouldn’t steal, you shouldn’t um because that again is taking away from somebody else’s property which is wrong and you don’t need a religion to basically support that and that there is a religion that’s where you’re wrong. That’s where you’re religion that supports there are people who there are people who are secularists who don’t believe stealing is wrong.

2:18:43 · They think stealing through taxation is correct. They black lives matter think that you know we’re living on stolen land and you got to give it back and all these kinds of things. There’s a lot of people who you’re taking the moral Christian moral paradigm for granted and saying it’s objective when there are when if we separate church and state. Yeah, that’s Christian. Those are Christian values.

2:19:05 · People have a right to live unless they are um unless they’re basically threatened. That you think that’s Christian?

2:19:12 · Do you think there’s any other religion that holds that? You think that that wasn’t the case before Christianity?

2:19:18 · No, it it absolutely wasn’t. In in the ancient pagan world, there was no right to life. There was no human dignity. That did not exist.

2:19:26 · Okay. I They did human sacrifice.

2:19:29 · Yes. Some absolutely some religions and different sex did those things.

2:19:34 · Okay. Go to an Islamic country and ask them if they think everyone has a right to live.

2:19:39 · But it absolutely did exist. Especially in Nordic. Especially, you know, Nordic.

2:19:45 · They did human sacrifice, too. And they conquered and killed people. Dri, no. They didn’t believe that it was wrong to kill people and take their stuff. You just said Vikings and you’re trying to tell me Vikings thought it was wrong to take over people’s land and kill them. Isn’t that like legitimately what they did in their own in your own society? I’m not talking about conquering.

Morality in other religions

2:20:06 · Well, that’s subjective.

2:20:09 · Tell me or tell me. They did not have a concept of objective human rights and objective morality. They sayist Christianity Christianity is the only religion that has universal morals.

2:20:22 · Every other religion and system says there’s what’s right for us and then there’s what we do to other people. Are you not aware of that?

2:20:28 · Uh I’m not aware of the I don’t know how many religions that exist and what each of them it doesn’t mean that you’re right.

2:20:36 · know what Buddhism any other religion Buddhism uh what it prescribes I don’t believe Buddhism prescribes that you know one set of rules for us another set of rules for them um Buddhism does not have an objective universal moral framework only Christianity does okay so again I set one example which is you said oh you know all of the other religions prescribe one thing for their people and another thing for other people and I just told you like that one doesn’t and I don’t I’m not even an expert.

2:21:07 · I’m telling you that Buddhism does not believe in objective morality that applies to everyone. It’s it’s very like uh you find your zen by just you know what’s right for people and you let them find their way. It’s it’s not here’s what’s right. Here’s what’s wrong and it’s the same regardless of the people or the place by or the situation by again by your definitions. And since Rachel there’s so many different religions again this is why we don’t prescribe policy based on religion problem your mic a little bit.

2:21:40 · You if you don’t then by then by that very definition you are making subjective prescriptions. Um, what if people that have a completely different worldview and a different religion than you came to power and then tried to impose their religious beliefs on you?

2:21:59 · Would that be okay?

2:22:01 · They have and they do. And that’s just an an is statement.

2:22:06 · So, isn’t the problem why Christians need to have power of the government?

2:22:10 · Because if we don’t, someone else will. or the solution is to take away the power of the government to make those kinds of selective.

2:22:19 · Do you want to get into that?

2:22:20 · Do you want to get into that argument?

2:22:22 · Cuz I don’t think you do. So you think that if we have a secular government where the church is separated from the state, we’re going to end up with fairness and human rights. Is that what you think?

2:22:31 · No. What I’m saying is it sets a dangerous precedent to set laws based on our particular religions because then that’s and what do we base them on?

2:22:42 · Then we base them on objective morality.

2:22:45 · Right?

2:22:46 · There is no such thing as objective morality according to you.

2:22:49 · We base it we base it on protecting the right of the individual. that that I think is the ultimate um then you would have to goal then you would have to have legal abortion you’d have to have legal pornography you’d have to have legal drug because protecting the right of an individual because it’s this is the libertarian argument which is why earlier when you said I think people should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else.

2:23:16 · Yes.

2:23:17 · That is the same argument libertarians and classical liberals have used since the enlightenment to say you can’t tell me I can’t smoke this weed. I’m not hurting anybody, bro. You can’t tell me I can’t abort this baby. It’s my body.

Morality in ab*rtion

2:23:29 · Uh, no.

2:23:30 · That that thing is not a person. It’s just a clump of falls apart very easily because of using biology as an argument, not using a religious argument. You use biology as an argument because again, the embryo is an individual by all senses of like the definition. It’s just part of the human um development. How has it worked out for us? Around the world, when we let secularists make the laws, they always make abortion legal.

2:23:56 · And they make abortion legal based on bodily autonomy and libertarian principles of I should be able to do what I want. It’s my body, my choice.

2:24:05 · And they’re making just because they get what they want. It doesn’t mean that their argument was valid, right? Because they’re just it without an objective religious moral framework. just this is going to be like way over her head. So, we’ll just go back to like no fault divorce or something.

2:24:22 · Also, we do have some chats that came through. So, why don’t we uh do a few chats? I think we’ve got about five or six. We have Chaw XD. So, our choice is to marry FEMCON women who we’re equals with and will allow for the proliferation of love and tell us it’s all our fault or go to Iran.

Superchats and loans

2:24:42 · Iran ain’t looking too bad suddenly. Uh would you like to respond to that? I’m sure you could I’m sure uh you could find the kind of uh submissive women that don’t want to vote um and don’t want to have financial freedom in Iran. So, you know what? I I recommend it. You know, one way ticket over there. Abs. So, absolutely. And again, this falls an easy debate.

2:25:08 · She just came right out and said the quiet part out loud.

2:25:10 · Uh, again under hypocrisy, you know, because the basic argument Rachel’s trying to make with her book is that women shouldn’t vote, but she does vote herself. And she just said in this that she’ll all the women can’t vote. I won’t vote either.

2:25:26 · Sure.

2:25:26 · And that’s not going to happen. So you’re basing your Well, I wouldn’t be so sure about that. They said Row versus Wade couldn’t be overturned and we got that one. And I think a lot of people are waking up.

2:25:36 · Do you actually think it’s possible that the 19th Amendment Not only do I think it’s possible? It is inevitable. And I’ll tell you why. Yeah, you can laugh. But I’ll tell you why.

2:25:47 · All the men watching this and all the men out there have started to figure out that this feminism BS is only there because they facilitate and allow it. And if at any moment men go, “Yeah, this was a shitty experiment that didn’t work. It needs to go to the dust bin of history. we know more of this then tomorrow it stops.

2:26:06 · You think that would actually happen?

2:26:07 · They we figured out that universal democracy, one person, one vote, basically provides this huge front for a shadow oligarchy. It does not provide you with more happen. What would be the time frame? Do you think in your lifetime?

2:26:19 · Oh, I don’t know. It could take it could be 20 years. It could be a thousand years. But with the birth rates dropping like they are, this situation that you think is so great is literally unsustainable.

2:26:30 · Wait, what’s the situation that I think is so great? the whole like women should be financially independent, everyone should have their own money, and we should all just be uh rugged individualists, and every p every person gets a vote.

2:26:42 · No, I think that when we each have individual rights and and liberties, we can come together in a community a lot better because we’re coming we’re coming out of from a point of consent, but we’ve had that, not out of force.

2:26:57 · We’ve had that for over a hundred years. And what has Yes, we have. 19 1974 is when women finally were able to be financially equivalent to men.

2:27:05 · Women were always Yes. We need to talk about this because let’s go there.

2:27:10 · You’re going to say that because some or most women Mhm.

2:27:14 · weren’t approved for loans or credit cards.

2:27:16 · Yes.

2:27:17 · That they weren’t allowed and that’s not the case. So this is what feminism relies on. Again, get the new feminism debate course cuz I break this down like no other. 1974 the the finally could have credit and were finally able to get loans without a male signature. This is 52 years ago.

2:27:33 · You’re just wrong. You’re just wrong.

2:27:35 · What do you mean? Is that you can explain it if you want to pull that up if that’s a but the framing of how you’re saying it is totally I’m telling you a law passed right. What framing is there? It’s a fact 197 people who aren’t very smart. I’m sure the framing doesn’t matter. I as soon as you’re done yapping, I’ll just Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed. You can pull this up. Equal Credit Opportunity Act 1974.

2:27:59 · I know that happened.

2:28:00 · That allowed women to finally get credit and that finally allowed women to get loans without a male signature. That happened 52 years ago. Women weren’t financially If she stops talking, I’ll explain how wrong.

2:28:14 · Well, I I guess question for you. One point of clarification. Were women legally barred prior to it?

2:28:20 · Yes. No, they were not.

2:28:21 · Or were some banks?

2:28:23 · It didn’t. Yes. Correct. There were basically there wasn’t uh protection that required that all women totally Yeah, I can totally break this down. So now it’s my turn. What what she’s doing is a classic She doesn’t realize this is what it is, but it’s classic feminist framing to make it sound a certain way when it wasn’t.

2:28:43 · It’s facts. So before the equal facts aren’t feminist and they don’t care about your feelings either.

2:28:49 · My god, are you done here? Let let Rachel let me explain what actually happened. So she’s conflating and saying women were not allowed. That’s not the case.

Historical accounts of loans from banks

2:29:00 · Banks for the most part did not often grant loans or credit cards or accounts to women who did not have employment the same way they wouldn’t now. So, if you went to a bank now as a man and you’re 25 years old, you don’t have a job, you live at home with your mom, you don’t have any established credit, and you don’t have any way to pay a loan back.

2:29:22 · Are they going to grant you a loan? No. Okay? There was no law saying women cannot have these things. It simply was the case most of the time. Now, there were plenty of women and I have multiple I have multiple examples in the feminist debate course where I show you all the women who did have bank loans, credit cards, bank accounts. Going back to the 1700s, women had these things. It just wasn’t most women.

2:29:48 · You often needed your dad or your husband to sign for something because you didn’t have a job because you were where you belonged in your home raising the next generation, which is the most important thing a woman can do with her life. So, yes. So, so what she just did was present disingenuous framing that makes it sound like women weren’t allowed these things.

2:30:10 · They were denied it. And what this Equality Act she’s talking about, this Equal Financial Opportunity Law, what that did was That was um that’s a great It was It was because what it did was force. It’s the same thing we do with uh everything else. All this DEI stuff, all of this to not discriminate based on gender.

2:30:31 · Just shut up for a minute and you can learn. You can learn. Yes. We force institutions to grant loans. We say you have to give them this. You have to give them that. You have to prove you have to prove that you’re not discriminating based on sex by offering women these things. even if you know it’s a financial risk, even if the bank wouldn’t normally make that decision for business reasons.

2:30:55 · So this law, what this law did was force the hand of the government to step in and try to force equality, and you say you’re against that. You say you’re against the government coming in and forcing equality, but you back all this DEI nonsense. You back affirmative action.

2:31:09 · You just said a lie, which is that this law forced banks to give women loans, and it didn’t. All it did is guarantee that they didn’t discriminate on the giving of loans or credit based on gender.

2:31:21 · Don’t you think that banks don’t you think that businesses should be able to deny service to anyone they want for any reason or not?

2:31:28 · Because of gender because of gender? No.

2:31:30 · Absolutely not.

2:31:30 · Okay. Well, that’s a progressive position. Do you think that bakeries should a Christian bakery have to bake a gay wedding cake?

2:31:37 · Let me finish. I’m talking about financial financial rights, right? No, I don’t believe a bank should deny uh any kind of services to people based on their gender because then they could also deny services or loans or credit based on race. It should be it should be Rachel, let me finish. It should be based on the person’s credit history, ability to pay back, all of that stuff. The things that normally banks take into consideration.

2:32:05 · That’s not what that did because it was telling it did not force banks to give credit. It created a situation where the government is now watching the bank and if they don’t have a certain percentage, it’s the same thing they did with DEI hiring and with affirmative action and college, you know, letting women and minorities into college.

2:32:27 · So, what this did was a bank might look at a woman and say, “Okay, she just got divorced. She’s only had a job for a month. The odds of her being able to pay back a loan or a credit card are like not good.” Normally as a business decision, we would say no to this person regardless. But because she’s a woman and we have to show a certain amount of women on our, you know, payroll, on our bank rolls that have accounts so that we don’t get investigated and accused of denying women’s rights.

2:32:56 · That doesn’t happen.

2:32:56 · Now we’re going to do that. That doesn’t happen because the bank can then prove no. The reason we denied this woman I think we should have left it. reason why we denied this woman um you know credit is because she just you know got divorced and she just you know they should be able to deny credit based on anything they want if somebody inquires about libertarian why do you want the government coming in and telling the bank who they have to loan money to if somebody inquires about if the government decides to investigate a bank and says oh you know you’re giving 80%

2:33:28 · of your credit and loans to men and to women, but the bank can prove, “Yeah, here’s why we denied most of women’s applications.” They wouldn’t get into any problems with the law. And this and this, if you’re if you’re a major bank, are you going to take that chance? No.

2:33:45 · And this opportunity and this uh act made that the case. It didn’t force banks to give out credit or give out loans to people that didn’t deserve them. That’s actually something that But women were allowed. So, but the whole point is something women were allowed who own property, have jobs, have their own money. Were they not?

2:34:05 · That’s something that the Clinton administration did. Um, and that’s She would love the Clinton.

2:34:10 · A big reason why we had the whole 2008 housing.

2:34:14 · Yes. Exactly. So, are you saying that it was illegal for women to have their own money or property prior to 1975?

2:34:21 · So, there’s something called coverture laws, right? So if you were a married woman and uh you have joint property with a man uh and that man was away for business or war whatever uh you still had no legal identity. It means that you could not sell the property or or do business without their consent or anything like that.

2:34:45 · So no, you didn’t have any kind of uh legal business standing those that So again, they did not have rights outside of the presence of a man.

2:34:57 · Okay, that’s in a legal marriage where where both of their they both owned property supposedly.

2:35:03 · But here’s the pro here’s the problem with that. If you go back to again the anti-suffragists arguments to the suffragists in the late 1800s, the middle 1800s even, the state of New York, this varied a lot by state. So this was not federal most of it for most of history. In the state of New York in 1870, if you were a wealthy woman and you went into a marriage with um an inheritance or a an expected inheritance and maybe you already owned property, maybe you had a wealthy dad and you owned a piece of land.

2:35:33 · In the state of New York, your husband was not allowed to get that in the divorce. He was not allowed to sell it or do anything with the land or the property or the money unless you said in front of a judge that you were giving him permission. And the judge had to be reasonably assured that you were not being coerced or forced or in any way pushed into doing that. And the women who were against suffrage cited these laws. There were breadwinner laws and there was other types of laws.

2:36:01 · They cited this as, “Look, we’ve got a really good deal and if you make us politically equal with men, all this equality feminism stuff, we’re going to lose privileges and protections that we now enjoy under the law that we want to keep and that we were still today.”

2:36:18 · No, there were a lot of protections in place for women that we don’t have anymore. So, if I had been divorced in 1870 and not 2006, I would have not been in the situation where here I am a single mom with kids and because my husband got into all kinds of trouble and I had to divorce him.

2:36:38 · Uh, now I’ve got to try to figure out how to support them. I’ve got to get a job. I’ve got to get on welfare. I’ve got to put them on Medicaid because I can’t afford.

2:36:46 · Do you think laws are more fair back in the day than they were now? When it comes laws back then protected vulnerable women better than they do now. Yes. And I have data that can I disagree with that position.

2:36:56 · No, it’s I’m okay. So when the church would step in and forget about the church the the law like we’re talking about legal marriages.

2:37:04 · Why do you want the government to do all this if you’re talking about reality right now?

2:37:08 · No. You said you want individual rights, but then you’ll say but I want the government to step in and protect women. Which is it? You have to pick one.

2:37:15 · I’m saying what we have in place right now. the protections in marriage and in divorce laws. You think that that is that that was better back then than that it is right now that it protects I completely disagree with that as a broad picture for many reasons. I disagree with that because nowadays uh yeah cuz you want the right to courts take into consideration contributions beyond financial when it comes to marriages. So that’s why I do have to uh let some more chats come in here. America.

2:37:48 · We have redacted 92. Totalization of reproductive control in females with secularization and feminism yields this pathology. The beast of vanity consumes females from within, ironically fulfilling their fear of obsolescence.

2:38:06 · Deep stuff.

2:38:06 · That was Shakespeare.

2:38:08 · Shakespeare right there from redacted 92. Thank you very much for your message, guys. Uh we have uh six messages we need to get through, guys. If you want to get a message in right now, our read threshold is $99 and up. We have a $10 display. Also, like the video if you’re enjoying the stream. We have based Justin coming in here with Oh, I triggered it twice. You’re back.

Superchats

2:38:32 · To summarize, feminist is as feminist does. Proof is in the pudding. You practice an emphasis on marriage and kids with only a latest boyfriend at 32ish with no kids. when family tick tock. Would you like to respond to that?

2:38:48 · Um, I’m glad that you’re following my dating life so closely and are donating $100 or $200 every time I’m on the show to get a message out to me. But that is going fantastic. And like I said, the person that you have children with is the single most important decision you can make. Uh, I never I don’t want to be in a situation where, you know, I’m divorced uh and then my kids have to be raised by somebody else.

2:39:14 · So, I’m going to take my very sweet time to make sure that I set up my family for success and I’m not a part of that divorce rate um after kids. I think that’s one of the worst things anybody has to endure. Um, do you want kids?

2:39:33 · Yeah, absolutely. and I’m going to have kids and so you know thanks guys.

2:39:38 · Uh well thank you for that base Justin we have Chaw here. Thank you man. How are you invoking objective morality absent an epistemic foundation that doesn’t make any sense like you actually have no idea what you’re talking about.

2:39:50 · Do you want to respond to that?

2:39:52 · Yeah.

2:39:52 · I think there’s things that again objective morality just as you know shouldn’t murder people for any reason. I think that that goes beyond religion. Um and we don’t need what he means by epistemic foundation.

2:40:06 · I am not an expert of absolutely every topic and that’s understandable and that’s fair. All that means is you have to have some so epistemology is just basically like how you know what you know or how you know what’s true. So you can’t just say well I just think murder is wrong.

2:40:22 · It’s like okay but do you have a justified reason for saying murder is wrong? Cuz clearly there’s some people in this world who don’t think murder is wrong. So like what makes you right?

2:40:31 · He’s just saying you need some kind of epistemology to stand on to make those kinds of assertions and you’re not. You’re just saying I just think it’s the case.

2:40:40 · Yeah.

2:40:40 · I think Yeah. I think that even in even people that subscribe to religions that try to justify uh murder, right, in cases that aren’t justifiable for in common civilization. I think they know it’s wrong. I think we all inherently know. I think again, that’s nice to say, but I think we all have a conscience. That’s not how a debate works. You’re just saying words.

2:41:03 · If there’s people that, you know, believe it’s okay to kill others of a different religion. Um, I think that they know at their core that that is wrong and they just choose to.

2:41:14 · Well, I think you know at your core that women are not equal with men and that anytime men decide to rescend women’s rights, there’s not a damn thing they can do about it. But you’re not going to admit to that either.

Simps and force doctrine

2:41:23 · It’s It’s not going to happen. Um, you won’t admit to that.

2:41:26 · Why do you think it’s not going to happen?

2:41:28 · Because it’s it’s just not going to happen. You take it for granted that simps are going to always come to the rescue, don’t you? Have you heard of a little place called Afghanistan?

2:41:36 · Yeah. Uh, do you know that they used to have Okay.

2:41:39 · What about Iran? What about a little place called Iran?

2:41:42 · Uh, yeah.

2:41:43 · Okay. What about Russia? Russia’s not even Muslim. How about Russia?

2:41:46 · I’m talking about the United States.

2:41:47 · Okay.

2:41:47 · But what I’m telling you is historically there’s multiple places around the world where regardless of of religion or other factors, women had rights and then the men said, “Eh, not so much anymore.”

2:41:59 · Uh that why do you think that won’t and couldn’t happen here? Other than the fact that you’ve lived a privileged female life that leads you to believe that like this could never happen to me.

2:42:09 · I don’t think it’s a privilege to demand equal voting rights. You can demand it all day, sweetie, but if the patriarchy doesn’t grant it, you’re out of luck.

2:42:17 · Rights as well. Um, and I don’t think rights are determined based on force.

2:42:23 · That’s all super cute. So, what happens?

2:42:25 · No, it’s not super cute. Do you believe rights, inherent human rights are derived on whether somebody else can take them from you or not?

2:42:35 · I don’t I don’t agree with that.

2:42:36 · Now, be careful cuz I know you don’t know philosophy. That’s an is statement. It’s not an ought claim. I’m not saying rights ought to be taken.

2:42:47 · I’m saying if tomorrow men don’t want to enforce women’s rights, you and I can’t do anything about it.

2:42:54 · I don’t know. I I can’t say right now that I know for sure that that would be the case just because, you know, we have guns, the great equalizer. I see. So, physical force isn’t as much of a determining factor uh between the sexes.

2:43:10 · And I think at least in Florida where I’m from, um, an equal or close to equal amount of women own guns as men. And it doesn’t matter whether you’re, you know, 7 feet or 5t as a man. You know, all you need is a small little handgun to be at equal.

2:43:26 · Yeah. I equal levels.

2:43:28 · I’m actually a firearms instructor myself and I teach women.

2:43:31 · So you understand that guns are the great equalizer. And what I understand is that but as a whole but as a whole so like on an individual level if there’s an attacker coming at you your best shot is a gun for sure.

2:43:41 · A pew pew. I don’t know if you can say that on YouTube.

2:43:43 · Yeah.

2:43:43 · And if men wanted to take over and stop letting women vote women you don’t think women with guns in this country would do something about describe to me how you think that would look.

2:43:55 · It’d be terrible. It’d be bloody.

2:43:57 · You think that the girls are going to So we just took away abortion rights.

2:44:00 · Mhm.

2:44:01 · What a ant.

2:44:03 · What did the women do? Why what did the women do about it?

2:44:07 · They they went into the street and screamed. Everybody saw the videos of the liberal women screaming at the sky de uh promising they’re never going to have sex again, which is like, oh, now you’re starting to figure out like you don’t have to have an abortion if you just don’t do the sex.

2:44:21 · I’m very We saw them vowing, you know, all kinds of things. I’m going to we’re going to do something and they didn’t do anything. What? What were you expecting them to do?

2:44:32 · Well, you said they would get guns and take their rights back. I’m wondering why they didn’t do that.

2:44:36 · Well, it was never a right and it was never a constitutional right. Whereas abortion written in the US Constitution.

2:44:41 · So, you think if it was in the Constitution, then they would have revolted with guns.

2:44:45 · Uh then they would have had probably a more uh objective valuable reason to do that, but it’s not right.

2:44:52 · But would they though? Do you really think women are going to collectivize?

2:44:56 · So, no. I don’t think most women want to kill their kids.

2:45:00 · Why? Why in all of human history have women never overthrown men as a group?

2:45:06 · Good question. Usually usually men have been the ones to to fight the wars to go to war to choose.

2:45:12 · But why why did women wait until 1920 when the law changed? Why didn’t they just rise up as a group and take their rights before that? We’ve never had a civil war that I know of between men and women in any kind of civilization in the past before.

2:45:32 · Uh because usually communities operate as one. It hasn’t been, you know, men versus women.

2:45:38 · You could you could technically say in places like Iran, you have women’s rights movements that that do, you know, advocate for their rights as Yeah. They always have to beg and ask who who do they have to ask to their rights to be granted by.

2:45:55 · Okay, I I grant you that position. What I’m saying is that rights moralistically do not come from force, right?

Natural rights, where do they come from?

2:46:05 · That’s just an assertion. What are you basing that on?

2:46:09 · From the fact that people have inherent human rights.

2:46:12 · According to who?

2:46:14 · Do you believe in natural rights?

2:46:16 · Not about what I believe. According to who? natural natural rights. That’s whether I believe it or not has nothing to do with anything. If if men with guns don’t grant the rights, how do you have the right?

2:46:28 · It doesn’t mean that because men again, you’re conflating two different things.

2:46:32 · Should you’re saying should conflating two different things?

2:46:34 · You’re saying I think we should have rights regardless. But I’m saying rights don’t come from uh physical differences and being more physically strong in any kind of way. Do you agree with that statement that rights doesn’t matter if I agree?

2:46:50 · Okay, I’m want I’m asking you do you agree that rights do not come from uh objective like physical force?

2:46:58 · Let me just grant that I do believe that can you prove that? How can you demonstrate that rights do come from they just exist, right? We just they’re just granted by what? By what?

2:47:12 · I think they’re natural rights.

2:47:13 · They’re natural. Okay. And so what happens if tomorrow the men violate your right to vote and they stop letting you into the polling center and they say you can’t vote anymore. You’re a woman and we’re not going to let you.

2:47:25 · That’d be a bad thing. But yeah, but what would you do about it?

2:47:29 · Personally, I mean I I don’t know. Go somewhere where women do have egalitarian rights. I I don’t know. First of all, that’s not going to happen.

2:47:36 · What I’m trying to say is it can’t be natural. It can’t be natural. And here’s why.

2:47:40 · Okay.

2:47:41 · The natural state of the world is patriarchy. That’s the natural truth of how things exist. So any illusion you have that we have these inherent rights granted to us by God by nature. Yeah. You can think it’s by God.

2:47:57 · I don’t think that the Bible doesn’t say anything about that. The Bible doesn’t say equal rights for everyone. Make sure the women have equality. In fact, the Bible says men are supposed to be subject to their husbands and to their priests and they’re supposed to be quiet in the church and they’re supposed to ask their husband if they have a theological question and and that they should submit to their husband. That’s what God says.

2:48:19 · That’s in your personal interpretation.

2:48:21 · Do you believe in like astrological new age God like the universe or something?

2:48:25 · No. Uh I think that there’s biblical proof and evidence of God valuing man and woman.

2:48:32 · Of course, he values them the same. That doesn’t God can value men and women the same and still he created a system. You talked about natural created legal systems.

2:48:44 · God created the natural world that we live in, right?

2:48:47 · Yes. Not legal systems.

2:48:48 · In that natural world, there is hierarchy, right?

2:48:52 · Sure.

2:48:53 · There’s always people who are at the top and then people beneath them.

2:48:57 · In every structure, whether it’s a business, a government, society, yeah, all structures are hierarchical. There is no such thing as equality. There’s always people with more power. There’s people who are taller, prettier, smarter, more talented. That’s God’s creation. Yes.

2:49:13 · Yes. So that’s that’s hierarchy. That means we’re we’re not equal different. Well, it doesn’t even need to be hierarchal.

2:49:20 · We can be equal in value. Like that’s what I’m arguing.

2:49:23 · God values women, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t grant men authority over us.

2:49:27 · He granted men authority over us. That’s why they’re bigger. That’s why they’re stronger. I know you don’t like that, but I didn’t. Wait, the proof?

2:49:35 · Don’t put don’t put words in my mouth.

2:49:37 · Okay. Well, you don’t you disagree with that. Clearly.

2:49:40 · No. I do believe that men are bigger than us, normally physically stronger.

2:49:45 · Uh-huh.

2:49:46 · You think that we’re equal with them, though?

2:49:48 · We have equal value. Yes. Therefore, we des we have equal representation. We’re like going around in a circle with this.

2:49:56 · Equal representation. Okay. Which biblical kingdom granted women equal representation under the government?

2:50:03 · I don’t know nor care, but I do remember what god are you talking about. You’re talking about Satan for all I know. What god?

2:50:10 · I do remember reading but I do remember reading in the Bible that Jesus wasn’t particularly a fan of politicians period collectors or that’s not what you think it is. So you don’t know anything about any of that. Don’t bring up the Bible if you don’t know cuz I’ll just waste you on it again.

2:50:27 · Um again, you’re there’s so many religions that come out of the Bible.

Equal value discussed in the Bible

2:50:32 · Okay. What God do you believe in then?

2:50:34 · I do believe in in the God from the Bible. Yes. Um but do you believe in the Bible?

2:50:40 · Yes, I believe in the Bible. But I show me where in the Bible it says that women have equal political rights with men or that women and husbands and wives are have equal authority in the home.

2:50:51 · It doesn’t it doesn’t say that anywhere.

2:50:53 · So then why do you believe in that?

2:50:55 · Because I’m basing my argument on God assigning equal value to men and women.

2:51:02 · Yeah. They can have equal value but men can still have authority.

2:51:07 · Do you think in the Bible do you think women and men should have equal authority in the home or in the government?

2:51:12 · Where in the Bible does it says does it say or does Jesus particularly prescribe men vote and women don’t?

2:51:20 · Uh there’s no democracy in the Bible.

2:51:22 · That’s another reason I don’t believe in it.

2:51:24 · Okay.

2:51:24 · There is no such thing as it’s monarchies. God granted us kings and gave us rulers.

2:51:28 · Okay. So, we should go back to the Bible.

2:51:32 · We should go back to why don’t you practice monarchies all over the world.

2:51:37 · Why don’t you practice what we preach?

2:51:39 · Um, actually, was it Thailand or one of those Christian monarchies? If there’s a Christian monarchy, that’s where that’s where I’m headed.

2:51:47 · Thailand, I I believe has uh some kind of sect or some kind of Isn’t Thailand mostly Muslim? Now they do have a large.

2:51:55 · So I’m not going to go there because but but there are plenty of other places where you can live under.

2:52:01 · Show me the Christian monarchy go live under closer version or actually I think it was the Philippines or Thailand not and they would you know supposedly uh exterminate like drug users and whatever across uh the country.

2:52:17 · Singapore and the Philippines do that.

2:52:19 · Exactly. So again, there’s a lot more countries on the outside that have the system that you currently like.

2:52:28 · Okay, but back to this. Right in the Bible in I think it’s 1 Timothy 2:12 says that men are supposed to be in authority over women and that women must submit to their husband. Again, I’m not gonna So, if you believe you don’t believe in the Christian God and you don’t believe in the Bible, can you do that and also vote?

2:52:48 · Do you think those two are at odds with each other?

2:52:51 · You could. Do I think you should? Those are different things.

2:52:56 · How things are versus how things ought to be. I don’t think you ought to be voting. No. Okay.

2:53:01 · As a woman, can you right now? Yes.

2:53:04 · Okay.

2:53:04 · And we’re never going to change each other’s minds. No, but what I’m asking you is how you can you are a contra you are the worst you’re the most contradictory woman I’ve ever debated.

2:53:17 · You’ll talk about individual rights on one hand and then say I want the government to come in and force equality for women and you’ll say I believe in the Christian God in the Bible and then you’ll say well not that part. I don’t like the first Timothy 2:12 part. Forget that. And I want democracy, not a monarchy. That seems icky. Jesus I think Jesus thought this even though that’s not what the Bible says.

2:53:34 · I’m just going to make it up. only person living living hypocritically or not practicing what they preach here is you because at the very least I say I believe women should vote I vote myself I think that that is what have I advocated here that I don’t you quite literally your whole stickick your whole thing is women shouldn’t vote but you do so yourself voting is one of the things I talk to about yeah voting is the most important thing that came out of the whole feminist movement.

2:54:09 · I don’t think so. You might say that, but I wouldn’t say that at all.

2:54:12 · Um, and I disagree with pretty much everything else in the feminist movement.

2:54:17 · Okay. Tell me what things I advocate for that I’m not living specifically.

2:54:22 · Voting absolutely is one of those, right?

2:54:26 · I don’t think women should be in politics.

2:54:29 · How about the second one? Uh, financial independence. You have your own.

2:54:33 · I am not financially independent. You have not even close.

2:54:36 · You work, right? You have uh you just said you were a gun instructor, so you’ve worked before under my husband. For my husband’s company.

2:54:45 · Okay. But you do work for my husband.

2:54:48 · Yes. But you are financially indep independent.

2:54:51 · I do not. I don’t have any bank accounts that are in my name only. Everything is joint. I don’t have any assets that are in my name only. Everything is joint. Mhm. So, so if you wanted if you wouldn’t be able to get out of that relationship or Sure. I would I would be I if he if he decided to be a serial cheater and I and we went to our priest.

2:55:12 · How about just one time? Would you would you It would depend.

2:55:16 · I don’t That’s not We have different values on that thing.

2:55:18 · Maybe. But I’m not going to break up a family unless I can tell you there’s no hope.

2:55:25 · Broke up the family. That’s what a childless woman would say because I put what my children need above me and my hurt feelings and it would depend. I’m not saying it’s okay. I’m not saying it’s moral, but if it’s So, let’s take this really common scenario just as an example.

2:55:41 · A lot of women will get married, have one or two kids with a guy, and stop sleeping with him.

2:55:45 · Okay?

2:55:46 · And it’ll have been, you know, the poor guy’s gone five years and he hasn’t been touched. He’s tried to talk to her about it. He’s tried to reason with her about it. He’s tried to go out of his way.

2:55:54 · He’s tried to be romantic. He’s try he’s tried to do everything he knows how to do to fix it. And she goes, “Look, I’m just not into it anymore. Ever since I had the baby, it’s just not my thing. I just don’t want it.”

2:56:03 · Okay.

2:56:04 · If he cheats in that situation, do I think that she should automatically divorce the guy? No, I don’t.

2:56:10 · Okay.

2:56:10 · That might seem crazy to you, but you keep the family together.

2:56:15 · I still think cheating is a choice. Um, of course, and I’m not saying it’s all right. pretty much usually it can, but there’s a lot of dead bedrooms out there.

2:56:25 · Or or you can as a man if that’s the situation you’re in. I think as a man, can’t you just get a divorce yourself if your woman is not fulfilling?

2:56:33 · Yes.

2:56:33 · But this is what duties your whole view comes from. And I’m I don’t mean this as an insult. I’m saying you don’t know what you don’t know because you don’t have children. And when you have children, they come first.

2:56:44 · Yes. Way before your feelings, your um And I would want to give no matter how badly a good example, especially if I have a daughter, I would want to not show her that somebody can disrespect me and can treat the family badly and I still stay for the sake of not breaking up a marriage. I wouldn’t want to set that.

2:57:06 · It depends. It depends. So, if your daughter found out, if your daughter found out you were terrible to your husband, you don’t sleep with him, you belittle him in front of people, you’re a jerk to him, and then he cheats because he doesn’t want to remove the kid’s mom from the home, but he doesn’t know what else to do of it’s not correct. It’s not a moral choice that he made, but I think that’s very different from you’re being the best wife you can be, you’re being a good, faithful woman, and the guy just wants to screw other people. Totally different situation. So that’s why I say it depends.

2:57:37 · Yeah. Uh I personally do believe that, you know, cheating is a oneanddone thing. And uh again, that’s easy to say when you don’t have kids.

2:57:46 · I know. Um but I also know that I have consistent moral values. Uh I also know in the Bible, you know, Jesus particularly references as adultery for one of the reasons that breaking up a marriage would be okay. It’s that big of an infraction.

2:58:02 · It can be. It can be. It’s that big of an infraction. Granted that it can be, but I don’t think that, you know, marriage is a long time. Especially if you get married young. Say you get married at 22, you live to be till you’re 82. That’s 60 years. A lot of shit’s going to happen in 60 years.

2:58:18 · You’re going to hurt each other. You’re going to do wrong to each other. You’re going to screw up and still keep it in your same women, by the way.

2:58:26 · I I agree. But I’m just saying I don’t think it’s an always every time must get divorced just because somebody had some infidelity. I think there are situ and there’s tons of couples out there watching this right now who will say, “Yep, we screwed up. He cheated. I cheated. We worked it out. We stayed together. We’re better than ever. We’re happy and our family’s still intact and our kids are happy.” So, there are situations where that is the more moral and less selfish decision.

Superchats

2:58:52 · Sure. And I’m all for choice. We do have some chats that we have to get to. Uh we have base Justin here.

2:58:59 · You shared plenty last show. If I remember correctly, your boyfriend clears 1 million a year as CEO of a nonprofit. Correct. How much more time are you going to take? Point is difficult to recognize how a priority dot dot dot.

2:59:13 · Um yeah, that’s very very uh vague because uh being the CEO of a nonprofit doesn’t mean that he makes a million dollars a year through the nonprofit.

2:59:23 · there’s other business ventures included in that which is like assets and property and whatnot. But um you know I do think that uh again it takes time in getting to know the person that you’re going to spend the rest of your life with, right?

2:59:40 · Um so again for me it’s not about money. Uh it’s about making sure that what we like is similar. You want to ideally uh match up and marry somebody that you enjoy.

2:59:55 · I apologize for those things.

2:59:56 · I do have to move it on, but uh we have AEI. Uh thank you for the super chat. Rachel loves cooking so much. She cooked you, didn’t she? Who brought the barbecue? It’s pretty good. Thanks. Thank you for your super chat there. Appreciate it. Uh a lot of barbecue references today. Mossing with you.

3:00:13 · We love a good barbecue. Here is $100 to mute Blonde Obama’s mic and let Rachel read her favorite part from her book.

3:00:21 · Well, unfortunately during the debates we don’t allow microphone mutes, but thank you very much for your uh super chat there. And if you do want to uh pick up Rachel’s book, Oult Feminism, she brought a Do you want a signed copy of Rachel’s book?

3:00:39 · Oh, she’ll sign something tells me no.

3:00:41 · No, not no go. the her book called Everybody I Don’t Like Is a Feminist.

3:00:45 · No, thank you.

3:00:47 · That’s not Maybe that’s part The book is The I was actually considering making like a fun little prop and and putting that little uh uh cover on your book. It’s like Rachel on top of a rainbow.

3:00:58 · Everybody I don’t like is a feminist, which is basically your argument. You know, everybody that disagrees with you that believes in Let me uh let me get through some of the super chats here. We have We have Red Fox. Thank you for your super chat, Red Fox. Briana, I’m not sure who that is.

3:01:14 · If duties for women are to behave, excuse me, if duties for women are to have babies, support the family, and make a home, are you failing your duty?

3:01:22 · Are you a good example for women?

3:01:25 · Uh, good, great question. Um, are women not having kids at the age of 50 or 60 or 70 failing as women? I think that everybody does that on their own timeline. Um, whenever is best for them.

3:01:38 · Wait, you mean like women who had kids earlier, but now they’re 60 and they’re not still having them?

3:01:43 · Yeah. As in if the duty of a woman is to have children, uh, at what point does it stop?

3:01:49 · What if you’re like me and you have them supposed to have you just have them until like menopause and then you just can’t? You know, you did your duty.

3:01:56 · Sure. That’s that’s what I’m saying.

3:01:58 · That’s what the super chatter is saying.

3:02:00 · The super chat is just saying he’s not saying you got to always perpetually be having kids. He’s just saying at some point in your fertile years you should be doing that and that doesn’t last forever.

3:02:10 · It’s so crazy how people are so concerned with somebody else’s, you know.

3:02:14 · Well, we’re very concerned about the birth rate. Yeah. And the fact that women are generally focused on career and not focused on family anymore. It’s a serious problem.

3:02:22 · Yes.

3:02:22 · That I am actually trying to address myself and I’m not doing that by telling the women that, hey, you know, you should not vote. That’s not going to make them have more kids. telling them that they can’t vote and that they shouldn’t be financially independent is not going to I think is not great foreplay to but you’re acting like I come on here and I go listen ladies you shouldn’t be voting and you need to depend on a man

3:02:49 · forever no like what I’m saying is what my message to women is don’t listen to her don’t listen to Taylor Swift or Beyonce or Kla Harris or Hillary Clinton or any of these women who who put their career first, who think who think they have to be independent and prove they can do it on their own. There is no shame and you are not a loser. If you marry a wonderful guy, you have kids with him and yes, he’s the one that makes all the money and you stay home and you depend on him. That does not make you weak.

3:03:21 · That does not make you a loser and you don’t have to feel ashamed about that and you shouldn’t feel bad about it for one minute. It doesn’t make you ignorant and you’re not going to get beaten and abused.

Career before kids

3:03:31 · I agree. Um, but don’t listen to these women. Why What do you have against women that do decide to put their career first and then have kids?

3:03:39 · I don’t have anything against them, but I asked them I asked I didn’t say they’re losers. I think everything that you said.

3:03:46 · I asked them this question.

3:03:47 · The women that have kids.

3:03:48 · And I’ll ask you the question.

3:03:50 · Sure.

3:03:50 · What duty are you serving to anyone or anything outside yourself?

3:03:57 · Be more specific with your question.

3:03:59 · I can’t be. Are you serving? Are you performing any duty to anyone or anything outside yourself? Or is your life only about you and what you want and serving yourself?

3:04:10 · What what duty h I wanted to ask you. What duty do you feel I have to anybody outside of myself? Um but that would just let you talk even more. Um but uh I do think that nobody has a duty to anybody but but themselves from a legal perspective or from anything.

3:04:32 · I see. So um we do we do Let me finish answering your question. Um yeah, I think we all have individual uh choices on the timeline that we pick out for our life and that I think everybody lives their life as a rational individual that does what is most beneficial to them or what they think is most beneficial to them at the moment and we don’t have a duty to uh basically make anybody happy outside of ourselves. So, I’m sure a bunch of the people watching make anyone happy.

3:05:04 · People watching, you know, would love to be like, “Oh, you know, she should have kids like right now and, you know, get off the mic or whatever.” Get to it. Um, I don’t care. And nobody should care.

3:05:14 · I’m not saying you have to have kids tomorrow. I’m not going to I’m not going to go personal about you because it’s not my business and I don’t care. And I don’t think that it even is pertinent to what we’re talking about.

Finding responsibility outside of yourself

3:05:24 · What we’re talking about is what’s best for society, right? And what I’m saying is men don’t get to have this beautiful idea that I don’t have a duty to anyone outside myself because if men didn’t do what men do, we all die. So let me get let me give you a scenario.

3:05:42 · Mhm.

3:05:42 · If tomorrow you woke up and it was some weird rapture and all of the men disappeared and it was only women left on the planet. Okay, that’s scenario number one. Scenario number two is we wake up tomorrow and all of the women are gone and it’s only men left on the planet. Who lives longer? Uh the women.

3:06:04 · And will you let me explain why? So let’s say that the women disappeared men the species would die off because only men can sorry only women can have kids. So that’s it. We are done.

3:06:17 · So they live until they’re like 70 and then it’s over.

3:06:20 · We are done as So the men make it how long? like I I natural lipan. I’m not talking about that. Yeah. Whatever. Who all the men live until they’re like 80, 90, and then they die.

3:06:29 · So yeah, whoever. Correct. However, if and I’m not saying I’m supporting either scenario obviously, right?

3:06:36 · But if men did disappear tomorrow, just by um statistically, there’s a lot of women in the population that would still be pregnant. Um, and then they would have kids and would repopulate the earth and civilization would continue to But what if all the male fetuses that the women were pregnant with disappeared also?

3:06:58 · Okay. Sure.

3:06:58 · So, only babies that can be born as girls.

3:07:00 · Fetuses fetus is gone. And I love that you asked this because I thought about this question before because I know you guys have talked about the scenario.

3:07:08 · Uh, women are fertile, right, for 5 days before ovulation. So, let’s say a woman had relations with men 5 days prior to their ovulation day and still have the swimmers in her body, not babies, not a fetus.

3:07:24 · She would become pregnant and then yes, uh she would have a child and so statistically speaking, but all the the boys can’t be born though. There’s a weird noxious gas in the air that only kills men. I’m just saying now you have to be more women surviving without men is the the hypothetical. That’s that’s that’s the hypothetical you gave me. The species would actually survive if men disappeared.

3:07:48 · You’re avoiding the percentage of the population.

3:07:51 · You’re doing what I said you would do in my opening and you’re giving I’m giving you exactly why uh that would work because right now as we speak a lot a percentage of the population worldwide is pregnant right now. Some of them are not.

3:08:05 · Wait wait wait. It doesn’t look I’m jumping on avoiding she’s avoiding some of your loophole is going to waste a bunch of time.

3:08:13 · It’s not a loophole. It’s a loophole because what Rachel is trying to get at here is not in in in the instance where there are women who Yes, there would be women who are actively pregnant. And so conceivably if those women were able to make it to term and give birth to the child, then that child starts at zero. And then the species arguable even if it was only female babies arguably the lifespan of that child would extend beyond that.

3:08:39 · But perhaps Rachel what if you were to refine your question to uh you know what just either all the pregnancies end in that moment too or pregnant women also die I guess. So it’s or only the female embryos can survive and be born. It doesn’t matter. A world of all women everybody dies versus a world of all men. Um, I think everybody dies. I think it just depends on how long it is before either one does. And both scenarios are terrible.

3:09:11 · Women, let let me help you and tell you what would really happen. The women would survive very short period of time because they cannot run the critical infrastructure.

3:09:20 · It’s like a psychic or something.

3:09:21 · No, let me explain it.

3:09:24 · Water treatment plants run by men. Power plants run by men. The grid goes down. There’s no hospitals. There’s no more ways to manufacture uh antibiotics. There’s no heart surgeons. Like even the females who can do that stuff, who can do surgery, who can do first aid, they can’t do any of that without this world.

3:09:44 · Honey, this is the reason why feminism didn’t become a thing until the last hundred years because technology made and maintained by men is the only thing that allows you to believe you don’t need men. Do you get that?

3:09:57 · Wait, wait. You’re trying to put You’re trying to put words in my mouth. Who is saying that we don’t need men? Have I ever said that?

3:10:02 · You were just trying to evade the hypothetical and act like, well, everyone’s just going to die. I don’t know.

3:10:06 · Yeah. Everybody would just die. Society would die.

3:10:08 · But the men could survive way longer obviously than the women because the women cannot.

3:10:15 · Okay. What is your point to this?

3:10:17 · My point is that my point is that your belief in women’s rights, you have to ask the men to guarantee your rights. your any rights you have are granted, guaranteed and enforced by men only. Fantastic.

3:10:32 · And the minute they don’t want to do that anymore, you don’t have them. So if you want to live in reality, make it right. Does it make it right?

3:10:41 · That is my argument.

3:10:42 · That’s an is statement. That’s not an statement. Now just answer the question. Does it make it right?

3:10:46 · I don’t agree to the same paradigm as you. I don’t believe in rights like human rights. Everybody has rights. I have rights. You have rights. I believe in duties. We have duties to each other. We have duties to society. We have duties to God.

Fairytale land and rights

3:11:00 · Correct.

3:11:01 · We have duties but not rights.

3:11:03 · Correct.

3:11:03 · As individuals, that’s what you believe.

3:11:05 · Yes.

3:11:06 · Okay. I disagree. I believe we have.

3:11:08 · What you believe in is is fairy tale stuff. It’s it’s only there, but it’s only there granted to you by men. Do you understand that?

3:11:18 · I understand that, Rachel. Do you? Well, then you’d better be nice to them and you’d better stop arguing that you don’t need them and we should have our own money and you should have your own money and we’re all going to just live as individual words in my mouth.

3:11:29 · This rugged individuality that you believe in doesn’t exist.

3:11:32 · I’ve never once argued that we don’t need men and that we shouldn’t value men or anything like that. Rachel, again, stop trying to put words in my mouth.

3:11:40 · You know exactly what you’re doing. Um my only argument has been that regardless of whether uh it is because of you know the generosity of men that we do have rights, it doesn’t negate the fact that it’s still basically what should be the case. That should be according to you because you prefer it that women and men have equal value under the law.

3:12:07 · Why does that mean women need political power? Because having equal value doesn’t mean we should have power because we all live under the system, right? We all have a voice on the system that we want to live.

3:12:20 · Bird hands.

3:12:21 · I’m Hispanic. I talk with my hands. So, um I have a collab coming out with Homath really soon, too, by the way.

3:12:29 · But again, our rights don’t come from whether people or not can um can overpower us. I mean, they do.

3:12:37 · They actually literally do.

3:12:38 · Okay, Rachel. perfect example for you.

3:12:41 · See if you can understand it. Okay.

3:12:42 · Um, I’ll try I’ll try my best.

3:12:45 · Black people in this country are a minority. 13% of the population. Many years ago, it was an even smaller percentage of the population.

3:12:54 · Uh, white men basically granted black people the right to vote, right? Because they are such a minority that they could decide that that’s not the case. But do you believe that black people inherently have a right to vote because of their worth as individuals? That’s the argument I’m making. Rachel, wait a minute. Um, that that’s basically who granted black people rights?

3:13:21 · White. Well, men who men and women and women.

3:13:25 · No, women didn’t grant black people rights.

3:13:27 · Whatever. I’m saying the white population.

3:13:28 · No, no, this is key. This is the whole part you’re missing. This is the part you keep skipping. Who granted black people rights?

3:13:34 · Fantastic. I’m talking about who granted the black people rights.

3:13:37 · Rachel, the majority of She’s just going to avoid she’s just going to avoid her question. Maybe the question the majority basically a person’s rights inherent rights are not determined by whether or not uh a majority grants it to you.

3:13:53 · I agree. It’s not about majorities.

3:13:55 · That’s not what it’s about. So, let’s say there was a population the population shifted over time. It’s now 60% women, 40% men.

3:14:03 · Mhm. men still grant the rights because they have a monopoly on force even if they’re 60% women. So who granted the black who granted black people rights?

3:14:12 · Does it make it morally okay is what I’m saying. Just because Okay, let me give you another example.

3:14:20 · Okay, I can’t wait another example.

3:14:22 · You’re just going to I’m just going to still come right back to who granted them rights? Who?

3:14:26 · It’s not about who grants the rights.

3:14:28 · It’s totally about who grants the right.

3:14:30 · That’s all it’s about. about whether they should be whether that is a right they inherently have or not right so for example in Iran women don’t have rights because the system that exists there doesn’t give it to them are they equal in worth and value and

3:14:49 · should they have equal voting rights as the men do in their country yes that is that is my argument to you that is my argument yeah and we’re gonna just keep going back and forth and differing on And I think it’s just a matter of again hypocrisy. Do you practice trade?

3:15:07 · Who granted the rights?

3:15:07 · You still vote and you still because my husband tells me to vote and I submit to my husband. So who granted That’s a great excuse. That is a fantastic excuse, Rachel.

3:15:18 · Yes, you’re right. Black people didn’t have rights. And then who granted them rights?

3:15:22 · White people. White population in this country.

3:15:25 · No. Nope. White. You got it right the first time. Men.

3:15:28 · Fantastic. cuz they were cuz they were the larger uh population.

3:15:32 · No, because they have the monopoly on force. It had nothing to do with them being That’s exactly what I’m saying, Rachel. They had the monopoly on force.

3:15:37 · But it’s always men. So like could white women outnumbered black people, right?

3:15:43 · Back then, prior to civil rights, there was more white women than there were black.

3:15:47 · Black people have a right to vote because the white man says so or because they are equal as an individual.

3:15:52 · Are you talking about should or are you talking about do?

3:15:55 · Should I? Because I should. be 20 lb lighter, but I’m not. So, should I should be, but I’m not.

3:16:04 · Yes. Should.

3:16:04 · Right. So, actually, that’s that’s the argument I’m making.

3:16:08 · If you want to talk about uh claims, then we have to get into epistemology. And you’re not going to do any better with that. That’s going to be harder for you than this has been.

Why SHOULD rights exist?

3:16:17 · Rachel, this has been the argument I’ve been making from the beginning of the show.

3:16:21 · Okay.

3:16:21 · Tell me why would they should tell me why people should have rights. because we have inherent value and worth regardless according to regardless of gender or race or demographic.

3:16:35 · You disagree with that.

3:16:36 · I didn’t say I disagree with it. I’m saying I don’t think you say we should.

3:16:42 · I’m saying I don’t care about what we should. I’m saying I I’m the one now saying I live in reality where things are actually how they are. And in reality, men grant rights and take away rights at will. And I don’t think it’s the correct way to look at history or the correct way to look at society to say everyone has a say. Everybody has these rights.

3:17:05 · Especially when you’ve detached them from duties because you still haven’t told me a duty women have to men. Men have duties to women. Right.

3:17:14 · Which ones? Name them.

3:17:16 · Which duties do men have to women?

3:17:18 · To women specifically. Not to the country or anything like that. What duty does Brian have to any specific woman out there? Well, not I’m not talking about individuals.

3:17:27 · No, I am talking about a different thing really quick. Can we define the terms here? Can we define uh duty and can we define rights?

Defining the terms

3:17:36 · Well, rights are just an entitlement absent duty. It’s something that you just deserve. And women love to talk about what they deserve. The deserving I deserve, right?

3:17:47 · Women Women think of the world this way. This is a gender difference. Women think of the world as but it should be and I deserve and men think of the world as but it is and nobody’s coming to rescue me. Okay, that’s a an inherent difference.

3:18:00 · Fantastic. Get to the second point.

3:18:02 · Define what is a duty that people have to one another. What is a duty that I have?

3:18:07 · A duty is a what duty do I have?

3:18:09 · A duty is a moral obligation to God.

3:18:13 · Okay. Me Oh, to God. Okay. So, we’re getting religious.

3:18:16 · And via being to God. duty would you assign me to any man that exists out there right now?

3:18:21 · Uh, you don’t have an individual duty to an individual man because you’re not married. But as a woman, you have a duty to society to do one of a couple of things. Either society either produce the next generation or support and help those who are producing the next generation in whatever capacity you can. If you can’t do that, that’s what women’s duties to society are.

3:18:43 · Because if we don’t do that, society dies. Gotcha. everything collapses. Men have a duty to provide protection, infrastructure, all the things I’ve already talked about. Because if they don’t do that, we all die. Everything crumbles. That’s what a duty is. It’s something we’re obligated to do outside of ourselves because if we don’t, cast catastrophe ensues.

3:19:04 · Fantastic. I know that uh we have duties as a society for it to uh function.

3:19:09 · However, how are you going to enforce these duties on individuals, right, without basically trampling on their individual rights and their free will?

3:19:20 · And what they decide they can uh contribute to society because for example, yes, you have men that are carpenters and that is how they contribute to society. They’re electricians. There are men that have nothing to do with that. They’re freaks in the sheets and they’re, you know, uh, finance nerds. Uh, how would you say that they fulfill all of these other duties of protecting women and protecting society? My argument is that we all have that we’re all individuals, right?

3:19:51 · And we all choose how it is that we contribute to society based on our individual strengths, what we’re actually good at. And that is the most moral way of living. and that that is what leads to the best societal outcomes because we’re not stifling uh human ingenuity or sticking them into boxes and telling them women you have to do this because imagine if women were all just mothers forever throughout history.

3:20:21 · I mean, like I said before, we wouldn’t have refrigeration. We wouldn’t have kept we wouldn’t have we wouldn’t have true. All of those things, I’m I’m guaranteeing you you can look them up right now. Somebody send some super chats debunking her nonsense that women invented refrigeration. It’s going to be something refrigeration systems.

3:20:39 · Yeah, it’s always something like this.

3:20:41 · Oh, men actually invented refrigerators, but a woman invented this one specific part that like kind of made it better, but her boyfriend actually helped her.

3:20:49 · No, Florence uh parart if anybody wants to uh wait might I ask a clarifying question is your position that um so so you’re saying that women invented these specific inventions things uh in her case technology for refrigerators not the refrigerator so refrigeration system these these things could not have spontaneously been invented by men absent women yeah they absolutely could I’m saying this is reality this is what happened and imagine if We told women that no, you can’t do this. You can’t.

3:21:23 · Oh, yeah. Imagine what would have happened if we wouldn’t have let Florence who ever invent some kind of thing that went in a refrigerator that a man would probably invent a better thing anyway.

3:21:32 · Yeah. You’re you’re basically stifling human creativity.

3:21:36 · How dare I stifle Listen and and actual uh uses to society again.

3:21:42 · You know what the fundamental difference is here?

3:21:45 · Not everybody. fundamental difference is that I don’t really not everybody wants to be a mother. I would make that here’s the thing.

3:21:53 · You care about each and the reason is because you care about you. Okay? You care about individuals and what the individual wants and what the individual makes them happy because you want to pursue what you like and what you prefer and what makes you happy. It comes from a place of selfishness that you want to defend.

3:22:09 · It’s more selfish for me to do what I want than it is to prescribe other people what they should be doing. Because here’s what here’s what motivates me. Here’s what motivates me. The reason I’m here, I don’t give a what adult people want. Adult women, I don’t care. I care about what femin I care about what feminism has done to children.

3:22:31 · That’s my primary beef with it. And if you go into the last chapter of my book, I go over all of the hell that we have unleashed on children who pay the primary price for us telling women, “You don’t have you don’t have to do anything, sweetie. You just do whatever you want with your life and whatever makes you happy. And we’re going to arrange all of human society around women and what makes them happy and how they feel. The people that pay the price for that is primarily children and secondarily everyone else. I don’t care what you want to do for a career or what makes you happy. You I know you don’t.

Responsibility vs want

3:23:03 · And I don’t care what you want to do with yours either.

3:23:06 · You should care about the future of the human race. You should be producing the next generation and you should be living your life in a way that is best for them, not for you. That’s what I believe.

3:23:17 · I do that however I see fit that that do that. You don’t do that at all.

3:23:22 · You know how I am doing that? By making sure that I have the right conditions to have children so that I don’t uh give them a family that’s going to be broken up in the future. I know you have experience with that. I’m trying to avoid talking about you cuz I don’t I don’t want to make this about you and your whether you’re having children because listen it is about the individual at the end of the day and yes we do benefit as a

3:23:50 · society if people fill different roles that need to be filled but again you are trying to put individuals into boxes based on gender roles and gender roles do exist and there’s certain things that women are naturally good at. It’s like so over your head. It’s like you’re just going to be cute for some reason.

3:24:07 · For example, uh some women are just if you die tomorrow, they’re just going to fill your job. Some other blonde chick who looks good in a ball gown is going to go to the political dinner and take pictures. Okay. You’re not doing anything that’s going to that’s going to leave a legacy after you’re gone. You’re not having an impact on society in that way.

Who should be a mother?

3:24:28 · Do you think every woman should be a mother?

3:24:30 · Yes. I disagree.

3:24:31 · There’s a there’s a few depends on the person’s character. Some women are just not mother. There’s a few outliers.

3:24:38 · There’s a Listen, we can’t talk about things on an individual level because there’s always outliers. No, we can’t because you’re the type of woman who goes, “Well, I I would say men on average are taller than women.” You go, “Well, I’m taller than my friend Bob. He’s 5’4 and I’m 5’6.” That’s what you do endlessly through this whole debate. You go, “But what about this outlier? What about this person?” It’s like, are there a small subset of women who are not cut out for motherhood?

3:25:03 · You’ve gone from You’ve gone from denying.

3:25:05 · Are you going to just yap the whole time and just talk about my individual rights and I think we should all ride unicorns down rainbows because I think that would be best. And they would they would labize you for hysteria just a few years back, Rachel.

3:25:20 · Um, but I don’t think so. I don’t think it would be me who would be having the trouble. And now you Rachel, now we’ve gone from I don’t think women should vote, even though I do and I will. I don’t believe women should not hypocritical. And now we already established that’s not hypocritical.

3:25:36 · On top, cherry on top. Women should primarily be mothers because I say so.

3:25:42 · No, because it’s their duty. It’s not.

3:25:44 · Do you want to know why? Are you going to let me tell you why?

3:25:47 · Let me finish. I’m just going to endlessly yap about nothing. you’ve just been repeating your same five talking points for 4 hours and and you’ve been doing exactly exactly the same thing. Um, but here make a make a quick point, but I do need to get things moving. The whole point is that now you’re trying to prescribe to women as a gender what they should be doing.

3:26:10 · Hold on. Wait, Rachel, do let her finish her point.

3:26:12 · And uh, and I disagree with that. I think women can be multifaceted, multi-talented. They could be uh wives and mothers and at the same time also contribute in other meaningful ways to society. Uh that is reality the same way men do it. Because imagine if I said you know men’s we’re going to divide men and women’s roles from like what it used to be back in the stone ages or whatever.

3:26:37 · Women stayed home, cooked, cleaned, took care of the kids and the men went and you know hunted woolly mammoths and whatnot. Uh, and right now, you know, the job that all men should be doing is going out and hunting woodly mammoths instead of using their creativity to to, I don’t know, do different things that make modern life better. Again, you’re trying to box people into certain things just based on what you believe in. And I disagree with that. Fundamentally, I am an individualist.

3:27:03 · And I think the more we allow people to be individuals, the more that they gift to society and helps us all advance, live better, have better relations between the sexes.

3:27:15 · Let’s do this. There will be a little bit later on there will be closing statements so you guys can each lay out your final closing statements. But uh we do have one thing. Can I say one thing before we go to chats? I’ll make it brief.

3:27:31 · No, I’m I’m not an individualist. And the reason that I say women have a duty to have the next generation is cuz only we can. Men can’t step in and have the babies. The reason we don’t tell men, “Hey guys, we understand you don’t want to do the dirty, dangerous, difficult jobs that could kill you. So, you know, it’s all about what you want, men. You know, just stay home and play World of Warcraft.” Sorry, Brian. um just just you know do whatever you want and follow your dreams. We do not say that to men.

3:28:05 · If if men What do you what what do you mean?

3:28:07 · If men don’t step in, we tell men to follow.

3:28:11 · If you’re walking down the street with your boyfriend and a guy tries to mug you and he runs away, we as a society go, “You coward, you piece of shit.” You know, we we shame the hell out of that guy and we go, “You had a duty to protect her.” If if uh the politicians who are mainly men, if the president who’s a man does not defend our country from foreign invaders, we say, “He sucks at his job. We fire him. We want someone else.” We don’t let men do what makes them feel good. We don’t let men decide what they find fulfilling and follow their dreams. We only say that to women.

3:28:45 · We only say that to women. And we go, “Sweetie, you don’t have to have a baby if you don’t want to. You don’t have to be a baby factory.” And it’s like, okay, if you’re not going to and all the other Taylor Swifts and and all these girls are not going to you what? You think I’m going to do it by myself? You guys think that it’s fine to go off and I’m going to have a glamorous career where I close the deal over brunch and some other lady out there can have all the babies? No.

3:29:11 · Why can’t you do both, Rachel? That’s Well, that’s been my point. My point is I did that first for 25 years before doing this. And you’re calling me a hypocrite for it. You’re looking down on me for it. You’re chastising me and calling me a hypocrite cuz you’re like, “Well, you’re out here promoting stuff.

3:29:27 · You You’re out here making money. You’re out here doing things. Why are you doing telling other women not to do what you did?”

3:29:32 · No, I’m telling them to do what I did.

3:29:34 · Do what I did. Have all your kids first, raise them into adulthood. And then when they’re big and grown, you know, I started at 20, which is what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to start early in your 20s. And then by the time you’re my age, 45, you’re done having kids. Now you can, now you can go off and do other things because you’ve fulfilled your duty to society as a woman. We say the same thing to men. We go, men, you have to protect and you have to provide and you have to do the manly things. And if you don’t, we’ll shame you into oblivion.

3:30:06 · Uh, okay. So you say that you you did your duty as a woman to society by having kids early, starting at your 20s. uh and then you know had five kids, right?

3:30:20 · Um what if Well, first of all, there’s risks that come with that, right?

3:30:24 · There’s risks for everything.

3:30:25 · I know, but let me finish let me finish my point. Uh you’re prescribing women do this, but you’re not telling them the negative things that happen from you doing that.

Addressing Rachel’s past

3:30:36 · Everyone else does. I don’t have to cuz the whole world fearongers women about what could go wrong personal or chastise you personally.

3:30:44 · Negative things of what? uh she had you know three marriages two no I didn’t have three marriages or two or two failed relationships you know children from the first two relationship the negative things of what and the and the negative thing is she’s saying something could go wrong if you depend on a man and have kids he could turn out to be a bad guy and Rachel didn’t that happen to you and then you have a family that is broken up and now you have to deal with a broken family with people outside of

3:31:12 · your current relationship and I think that ultimately That is worse than women that wait a little bit longer in life, establish themselves, and then find somebody that um compatible. You’re acting like those are mutually exclusive. And what happened to me? What happened to me was not because I was young or the guy I was with was young. What happened to me happened because those guys believed in the you believe in. They were libertarians. They were like, “Oh, marriage is just a contract.”

3:31:42 · Blah blah blah. picked and they wanted them.

3:31:46 · That’s true. But out of because I was ignorant and I thought that was correct too. I thought like you when I was young and that’s where I made the mistake. When I corrected the mistake was when I realized oh if I want a family which is all I ever wanted. I was not interested in dating around until I’m 32. Like no thanks. I wanted to get married and have kids.

3:32:06 · I realized if I want that life, I’ve got to pick a guy like Andrew who is a strong leader, a patriarch, a guy who’s super responsible, a guy who is strong, a guy who takes care of me, not a guy who likes to split the bills. I used those split the bills.

3:32:23 · Rachel, you developed these ideas when?

3:32:25 · At what point in your life?

3:32:26 · About 24 25. Okay.

3:32:29 · About 25.

3:32:29 · So now I was still pretty I was still young enough to to let me but most women aren’t.

3:32:35 · We do Hold on. We do have to get some chats uh coming in here. So, we have airborne animal.

3:32:42 · Thank you for your message, man. Love the live exposure of this undercover leftist feminist as a grifting self-centered opportunistic liar. Like all leftists, she immediately goes to race. Keep exposing them for who they are. Not one step back from airborne animals. So, he’s calling you a leftist feminist, blah blah, etc., etc. quick response to that if you’d like.

3:33:06 · Um, you know, again, you guys can put whatever titles you want on people that don’t disagree with you. It does not make them true. Um, I think again facts literally don’t care about your feelings. Um, but getting uh again getting back to my point.

Superchats

3:33:25 · Hold on. There’s Sorry, more I there are more chats here, so let’s get through the chats and then time permitting you guys can get back to it. I find it hilarious you say you’re a conservative when you do the very thing liberal feminists do when they get into an argument debate bird hands peek I’m Cuban convinced women are impossible to please

3:33:45 · at this point uh base Thor thank you very much for a message we have let’s get through these uh red super chats here on the side we have Alan Roach thank for the Australian hundred n we are here to watch Rachel Cook now uh Drianna did I say it All right.

3:34:00 · Yep. For the first time.

3:34:03 · You you you are fluent in Spanish, correct?

3:34:06 · It’s Is it your first language?

3:34:08 · Um I think it’s toeto- toe with English. I was raised in Miami.

3:34:12 · Can you uh translate all these super chats into Spanish for for all the Spanish viewers of whatever?

3:34:17 · Yes, I could, but I’m not going to because that’d be a waste of time. But well, I mean, just to be considerate, like we’re such a hater.

3:34:23 · We’re very inclusive here.

3:34:25 · Hating on your super chats, guys. Yeah, we’re very inclusive.

3:34:28 · After this live, uh you can turn on u the auto. Yeah, the captions auto translate. Correct. Very see. She won’t even accept her duty to translate for the Spanish speaking audience. Just she’s an individual and she doesn’t want to guys. You’re out of luck.

3:34:45 · We’re trying to like, you know, bring it.

3:34:47 · Any any languages you guys speak outside of English?

3:34:51 · I speak poor poor French sessa. Uh we have uh Jin Bob Smith. Thank you very much. If guns are the great equalizer, tell me why there are zero women in special forces, parah rescue, NARSAC, excuse me, Marsac, Delta Force, SEALs. The gun is a tool. Men and men alone are the great equalizer.

3:35:13 · Yeah.

3:35:14 · Uh I think men with guns cancel out women with guns. Sorry.

3:35:18 · Fantastic. That’s true. That is true.

3:35:20 · But on one-on-one contact, that’s Yeah, it’s all we’ve got. It’s the only thing we’ve got. So, I’m a I’m a big gun advocate for women. I I needed one at a certain time in my life for sure. So, but as a but as groups, men with guns are always going to overtake women with guns, so it doesn’t matter.

3:35:36 · We have Josh here. Thank you for your super chat, Josh. The painful thing is the girl on the right doesn’t understand the government allowed women to work to tax them.

3:35:45 · That’s exactly right. She did say that, but she still wants us to do it for some reason.

3:35:50 · And still doesn’t know the Bible. This has been painful.

3:35:54 · Still doesn’t know the Bible. That’s That’s funny. Um I started off my argument uh my opening statement with, you know, pointing the finger at the government for what we’re seeing today and and taxing and putting women into the workforce to tax them. So that is incorrect. You should go back and watch the whole But then why do you want them to do it?

3:36:15 · Why do you want to give the government more tax money? Why do you want Why do you want a smaller native population and more taxes going to the government? Who says that’s the case?

3:36:23 · If you’re advocating for women to work, that’s what you get.

3:36:26 · I’m not advocating for women to work.

3:36:28 · I’m advocating for everybody to have a choice. And I’m Everybody always did have a choice.

3:36:33 · I’m advocating for I’m advocating to make it more attractive for women to uh want to be stay-at-home wise full-time.

3:36:42 · And I’m advocating for actual solutions creating the economy to permit that to be the case. We haven’t talked the only way to do that is to get mothers out of the workforce. How do you do that?

3:36:53 · We haven’t talked about that yet in this show. Uh which is what are actual practical solutions to the current problem that we’re seeing nowadays. Um, and my uh prescription for that is men should take uh self-control of their lives, of their bodies, of their health.

3:37:15 · Yeah, men don’t give enough. That’s the problem. The men don’t give enough.

3:37:18 · That’s not what I It’s always more. That’s not what I said, Rachel.

3:37:21 · Just always want more from the men.

3:37:23 · That’s not what I said, Rachel. Uh, I want men to be happy and healthy, and right now they’re not. They’re depressed. I think a lot of that comes from uh them getting their asses handed to them in family court, having access to pornography, which has never been the case as we as we see.

3:37:39 · We should outlaw that and tell women they can’t produce pornography and give it to them. That’s your men. That’s your prescription for it, Rachel.

3:37:48 · I think that it would work. Would it not work?

3:37:50 · It would work, Rachel, but it’s one not going to happen. Two, it is gonna two Rachel the onus.

3:37:56 · You realize pornography was illegal up until the 70s, right? It was always illegal. So why would it never happen?

The use of drugs and p*rn

3:38:03 · You think that just cuz things have been this way for 40 or 50 years that they’ll never go back. And that’s insane. It’s going to go back. It has to go back.

3:38:11 · Okay.

3:38:11 · Fantastic. Um if it doesn’t, then the onus is on the individual on whether they uh engage in these vices or not. Just like alcohol, right? Alcohol is available to everybody. Whether you engage in alcoholism is completely up to you and it is your choice.

3:38:28 · That’s different. Do you know how do you know how that’s different?

3:38:32 · There can be good beneficial uses for consuming alcohol. For example, at church celebrations in the not what I’m talking about, but I’m saying pornography there’s never a good use for it. It’s only bad. Therefore, you ban it. There’s no such thing as like, oh, a good amount of pornography.

3:38:49 · I agree with you.

3:38:50 · Yeah. So you banned that Unfortunately, the reason why I wouldn’t is because when somebody that disagrees with me comes to power, they will subject.

3:38:59 · You’ve said that a 100 times.

3:39:00 · They will subjectively You think heroin should be illegal?

3:39:03 · They would subjectively legalize heroin.

3:39:05 · Let me finish my my statement.

3:39:07 · Okay, I’m just going to drag you back to the question.

3:39:09 · They would subjectively decide what they think is evil or not. I know we’re in You said this over and over now. Should heroin be illegal? Uh I think heroin is bad and yes it should be uh illegal but also but also but if we ban heroin somebody else might come to power and then they might ban something else that we do want.

3:39:29 · It’s exactly actually what has happened.

3:39:31 · Anything that we’ve made illegal there’s been a black market for especially when it comes to the war on drugs.

3:39:38 · Did you know that legalizing pornography increases human trafficking inflows into countries? So actually when you legalize pornography and sex work, you end up with more human trafficking as well. There is no good healthy amount of sex work or pornography, there’s no reason not to ban it. If you think we should ban narcotics, then you would have to be consistent and say we should also ban sex work and porn.

3:40:00 · Uh I agree, Rachel.

3:40:01 · Okay, good.

3:40:02 · Pornography. Yes.

3:40:03 · I want to see you out there telling all the Only Fans, girls, stop it. You’re not allowed. We’re getting rid of it.

3:40:08 · Yes, we’re banning it.

3:40:09 · And I also agree, you know, with the whole war on drugs thing. I’m more of somebody that believes that should be up to individuals. Um, natural selection, which is Oh, so you want to legalize drugs?

3:40:23 · Uh, I think that ultimately people are always going to find a way.

3:40:28 · Do you want to make all drugs legal?

3:40:31 · I think it’s irrelevant because people I don’t think it’s irrelevant at all. We’re looking for consistency within. It is irrelevant because if you think it has they have been illegal period for so many years and still people are dying of overdoses.

3:40:45 · Murder is illegal and some people still commit murder. Does that mean we shouldn’t have murder be illegal? Should we just legalize murder cuz well you can’t stop all the murders so we might as well. Do you understand that you’re like not thinking it through?

3:40:58 · No. One thing is you acting upon another individual. You consuming pornography or drugs only involves yourself.

3:41:05 · No, it doesn’t.

3:41:07 · Do you see the distinction?

3:41:08 · Contradiction. Again, another point for me. She contradicts herself. Somebody else is just men. You just said men consuming pornography has a negative effect on the birth rate and women. It has a negative effect on relationships. Women don’t want to marry these men. It’s affecting all of us. So, the men need to stop doing pornography and primarily on themselves, which is what I’m trying to get at.

3:41:31 · But they it also affects all of society.

3:41:34 · And it’s the same thing. heroin. Yeah, some people are still going to do illegal drugs. However, when you legalize them, like Portugal and different places have, the problem gets exponentially worse. This whole idea, it’s a libertarian idea once again, that oh, we just make everything legal and then, you know, the idiots will just go die from heroin and the rest of us will live in a utopia. No, that’s not what you find. What you find is that in places that you legalize these vices, there’s certain vices that maybe it could be good for some people.

3:42:04 · Sometimes maybe it could be bad. So we permit them as like a necessary evil. Maybe. Okay. That’s different than there is no good reason to have certain things be legal like murder, like hardcore drugs because heroin addicts don’t just hurt themselves. That’s a lie. They they decay and destroy the rest of society. They steal from people. They commit crimes.

3:42:28 · You’re you’re preaching to the choir. Um then be consistent. I want to see consistency from you. You’re like consistent.

3:42:35 · So, should we legalize heroin or not?

3:42:37 · I am consistent in telling you that if we ban pornography because I believe that it’s bad.

3:42:43 · That’s not why we’re banning it. We’re not banning it because Rachel doesn’t like it. We’re banning it because it’s detrimental to all of society.

3:42:50 · Yes.

3:42:50 · This is what conservatives believe.

3:42:52 · I agree. Liberals don’t. And they will eventually come to power one day, right?

3:42:58 · We’re we’re not gonna have Oh, yeah. Keep letting women vote.

3:43:02 · Okay.

3:43:02 · That’s how they get in every time.

3:43:03 · Whatever. It’s going to happen, Rachel.

3:43:05 · And then again, my whole argument is it sets the precedent on making things illegal, banning things, etc. that you don’t subjectively like. That is why the But that’s not true. Also, Rachel, that’s why the onus is the You’re also wrong about that.

3:43:18 · The onus is on the individual. I don’t understand why you are arguing so much against the individual taking because I don’t believe in that libertarian anymore. I grew up I grew up and became a full adult. I have responsibilities to other human beings besides myself.

3:43:35 · You’re arguing against humans, men, women, whatever taking not taking responsibility for their own actions. That’s what you’re still have to do that.

3:43:44 · That’s what you’re arguing against.

3:43:45 · If I can just have a minute to debunk this ridiculous claims that you just made. So you said if we he can’t shut his laptop right now or phone and decide not to consume pornography. That’s what you’re arguing against. It’s very easy to I’m not saying that alcoholics can stop drinking tomorrow. Why don’t fat people can just stop eating?

3:44:06 · Stop trying to take away responsibility from the individual. I’m not because even when things are illegal telling the government to do it.

3:44:12 · Even when things are illegal, you still have personal responsibility. How?

3:44:17 · Because people still there’s people probably in this town right now doing hardcore illegal drugs especially in California.

3:44:23 · If they get caught they are going to go to jail. That’s their personal choice. They are they that actually increases individual responsibility. When we take something that we know has a major negative effect on society and we say this is not going to be permitted anymore. we are putting maximum responsibility on the individual because now we’re saying, “Okay, if you do this, you get caught. There’s consequences.

3:44:47 · You’re going to jail. You’re getting fines. You’re going to have to go to rehab.” Whatever it is in your libertarian utopia where we just go, “It’s up to you if you want to destroy all of society or not. It’s up to you if you because Okay, to throw your argument back at you, if we say we have to give individuals the choice to look at pornography, why?”

3:45:06 · No, I’m not saying we have to give individuals. saying we have to keep it legal.

3:45:10 · I’m saying you tried to say it was free speech.

3:45:12 · I’m saying that the reason why we can’t ban it is because it sets a dangerous legal precedent. Rachel, that’s the only that’s not true. That’s the only demonstrate it because if we again put our subjective morality as a reason for my morality is not subjective. Yours is.

3:45:32 · Um, no. Yes. We believe that pornography is bad.

3:45:36 · Perfect. Great. Fantastic. If I try to put this into law, once somebody else is in power, they’re going to put something that I don’t agree with into law that is based on their subjective.

3:45:46 · Everyone, though. Okay. So, if if you make this is why we don’t set legal precedents like that, Rachel.

3:45:51 · We do though. You’re just like one. Yeah. So, let me give you an example.

3:45:56 · Please go ahead.

3:45:57 · If uh when Trump got into power this this last round and he said, I’m going to say no more trans kids surgeries. Okay. And I don’t know if they’ve actually passed a law or not. I don’t remember. But let’s say we did. We we banned trans uh hormones and surgeries for anyone under 18. You can’t do them.

3:46:18 · You’re saying we can’t do that because then when Democrats come to power, they’re going to go, “Well, you made something illegal, so now I’m going to take away something you like.” That is not how things work.

3:46:27 · We have uh I will That’s why you do what I’m suggesting. The reason you do what I’m suggesting is because I have a moral epistemology and a framework that means what’s immoral today is immoral tomorrow in 100 years and a thousand years from now. It doesn’t change according to the culture, according to people’s opinions. That’s why I don’t want democracy because democracy by its nature has to be progressive. You can’t have conservatism in a democracy. What are you going to concern?

3:46:59 · We have we we have definitely had examples.

3:47:02 · What have we conservative?

3:47:03 · What have we conserved?

3:47:04 · Conservative values in a democracy. Yes, we’ve you can hold them, but you’re not going to win because the whole point of it is to be endlessly progressing, endlessly going somewhere, right? So, what if we endlessly evolving? Yes, that is the nature of humanity.

3:47:20 · Then you’re not conservative.

3:47:22 · You are progressive. That is the progressive mindset. I am a realist and things evolve and so we evolve with it. What doesn’t change are our our values.

3:47:33 · And for example, saying that trans kids are This is blowing my mind right now. This is blowing my mind that you’re letting these words come out of your mouth and you don’t see the contradiction. making a law saying that children cannot be mutilated, have their genitals mutilated or have their hormones altered with as minors has absolutely uh nothing. It’s not an equal example to anything that I was referring to. We are just So if we make pornography illegal, what do you think the Democrats are going to do?

That talk about those people and revenge from opposing parties

3:48:04 · For You think the Democrats are going to force kids to have trans surgeries?

3:48:08 · No. You told me we can’t. Is that the equivalent or No, I’m you’re telling me I’m doing an internal critique of your position. I’m saying your position is well, we can’t ban this thing just because we don’t like it, which is not my argument. I’m not saying ban it because Rachel doesn’t like it. I’m saying use a Christian moral objective framework that is universal for everyone and constant throughout the ages regardless of the culture or anything else. It’s unchanging foundation. You’re saying, “But Rachel, we can’t do that because inevitably we’re going to have a Democrat come to power and then they’re going to get revenge on us by getting rid of something we like.”

3:48:42 · Not we like that’s your position.

3:48:44 · That that is the reality.

3:48:46 · And I agree. And yes, that that is the position to that when you Yes, that that’s the only thing you’ve gotten right this whole time about what I’ve actually said.

3:48:55 · um that yes, if we ban something we don’t like because we morally disagree with it, then the left is going to do the same with us and they are going to But your whole thing is we morally disagree. I’m saying there’s no disagreement. Right is right and wrong is wrong. There are a universal set of objective morals that Christians believe in. The reason I want Christians in power is because they will legislate based on an based on unchanging universal standard. Well, if that happens, they’re going to make pornography illegal. They’re going to make sex work illegal. They’re going to ban abortion.

3:49:26 · They’re going to get rid of most of the drugs. They’ll probably let you keep alcohol and maybe a little bit of weed. Who knows? Um, no, just the ones that can be good and can be bad. Alcohol can be used in certain contexts for bonding and social things. It’s like been part of human celebration for a long time. The Bible itself says that wine is a gift from God. Wine isn’t bad.

3:49:49 · Misuse of wine is bad. You can’t say pornography is good, but the misuse of pornography is bad. Pornography is just bad.

3:49:57 · I’m not making that argument. And I’m saying you don’t understand the difference between me saying there’s there’s some things that are a tool that can be either used for good or bad. And the only thing that’s bad is the misuse. I’m saying there are things that are just bad, like sex work. There’s no upside to sex work, no matter how much libertarians want to argue it.

3:50:17 · The there’s no upside. So you make it illegal. Okay, Rachel, how how are you going to How? Actually, yes.

3:50:23 · What do you mean prostitution is illegal? What do you mean how?

3:50:26 · Only fans is not illegal.

3:50:28 · You ban it. So, where I live in I’ll tell you. I live in Are you out there knocking doors?

3:50:32 · I live in Texas where you can’t access that stuff unless you can prove you’re a certain age. And what that proves is that you can prevent people from accessing things the same way you make everything else illegal.

3:50:43 · If you have an only, we shut down only fans. We say you cannot operate in this country. There’s other countries that have banned only fans.

3:50:51 · And if we find a woman, which I think is good.

3:50:54 · If we find a woman producing pornography of herself, she’s putting she’s videotaping herself doing sex acts and putting it on the internet for people to buy, we put her in jail.

3:51:04 · That’s how would you which you know what would be let’s say I agree with you on that. Would you be okay also if you catch a man consuming pornography putting him in jail?

3:51:15 · Yes. So that is we used to have this and that is valid.

3:51:18 · We used to have a set of laws called the comtock laws.

3:51:21 · Okay.

3:51:21 · So and so if you caught a man let let Rachel if you caught a man with porn on his on his computer, he would have to face some kind of legal punishment as well. We’d probably do what we did with drug dealers though, which is the dealers get a much higher a much stricter uh punishment and the consumers of it get a lesser punishment depending on how much.

3:51:43 · What what percentage do you think of the people that are watching, which are mostly male, do you think would go to jail or get punished for consuming pornography despite them agreeing on the chats and everything with most of what you’re saying, but being hypocrites and actually consuming that kind of stuff.

3:52:02 · Well, I’ll tell you, I think that most of the men out there watching this, if they agree with me, there might be some like, “No, I think it should be illegal.” But the ones who think it should be illegal, if if this got passed through the Congress tomorrow and they said, “Look, within 90 days, we’re banning all pornography, if it if it goes above a topless photo.” If it’s more than that, or if it’s or if it’s a sex act, I think a lot of those guys would actually be really happy to have their access to that cut off because then they wouldn’t have to struggle as hard with having it in their face all the time.

3:52:34 · Because the problem with it now, 100 years ago, pornography was illegal, but it was so hard to get a hold of. It was not easy to get porn.

3:52:43 · Now it’s at our fingertips.

3:52:44 · Now it’s the average child is first seeing it at the age of 11. And I think a whole ton of people watching this would breathe a sigh of relief to know that if the government banned it and just shut down all those sites and you had to do a whole bunch of stuff. You had to work really hard to get your hands on it.

3:53:01 · It would keep a lot of people from ever getting addicted to it in the first place. It would keep children from seeing it. It would make men who struggle with it and they they don’t want to be addicted but they’re struggling with it. It would make it easier. So we get um according to you uh we get our rights from men right like what actually happens in society is because men are the guarantoars it’s because men allow it or or don’t allow it so if men you know wanted to

3:53:30 · get rid of this pornography problem they technically could they have the numbers for it why has that not happened Rachel well I’m glad you asked it’s the same reason that the 19th amendment got passed it’s the same reason that liberal and progressive agendas as a whole have passed. And I talked to Joe Rogan about this when I was on his show.

3:53:48 · It’s the beta males. It’s the simps.

3:53:51 · Do you think so? Are you calling the audience beta males and simps? Because not the whatever audience they wouldn’t be watching.

3:53:57 · They’re not watching. Statistically speaking, you don’t think a good percentage of them watch porn?

3:54:01 · They might be, but I’ll tell you this is you you asked why the men. No, I’m not.

3:54:06 · Because you asked why are the men allowing it? the men who are in power, the men who are in charge. Why are they allowing it?

Sneaky f*ckers in society and politics

3:54:13 · Because it’s it’s a little thing called a they’re called sneaky And they are men who as a mating strategy. They’re they don’t do well with women naturally. So they have to be like, “Hey ladies, I’m on your side. I love women’s rights. I think sex work is real work.”

3:54:29 · And they take all these like left feminist positions. And it’s a way of making themselves seem undangerous so they can get close to women, become friends with women, and then the hope is that eventually you’ll break up with your boyfriend and have a bad night where you’re drunk and let him hit it.

3:54:42 · That’s that’s the sneaky strategy. And a lot of wealthy uh nerds, you know, during the progressive era got a lot of power and a lot of money and they wanted to tax women and all these things that we already talked about. And so they passed this agenda by pandering to women and pretending to be your friend, pretending to care of the men.

3:55:01 · Right now, what we have is because of democracy, women are voting in a lot of these more progressive males, leftist males and women. So, now we’ve got a bunch of women in government. We’ve got a bunch of leftist men in government. So, there is probably a lot of conservative Republican men who would ban and have tried to bring bills to the floor to ban only fans, to restrict pornography, but they can’t because the sneaky and the feminists go, “That’s not fair.

3:55:30 · You can’t tell you can’t tell Sarah that she can’t put her butthole on the internet for $5.99. You’re denying her rights. They argue on the basis of rights.

3:55:39 · Okay.

3:55:39 · You think that uh a majority of women would be against banning pornography. When pornography causes infidelity reason and is the reason why a lot of relationships and marriages fail, I think most women would be in favor of banning pornography.

3:55:57 · Probably be about a 50/50 split. It would also because it would probably also because it’s a minority of the population that engages in producing it. Less than 1% of the population. So most women have no uh stake in the game. They could quite literally just, you know, vote against kids are texting me even while I’m here.

3:56:17 · Same thing with uh with men. If a majority of men actually were against this, they could, you know, unite and and ban it. But the reality that we live in unfortunately is that people are not being accountable to themselves. To themselves and that is why they’re not even going to go towards the next step which is making things you’re wrong and I can prove it. You’re wrong and I can prove it. So go pornography was illegal until really recently until like 50 years ago. Yeah.

3:56:47 · And Anthony Commtock was a conservative man in the government who passed the Commtock Act and the Commtock laws that made all that stuff illegal.

3:57:00 · Those people got pushed out of the government when we gave women the vote.

3:57:04 · When we gave women the vote, we got more leftists, more progressives, and females in government. And now in our government, we have a large majority of women, leftist and moderate men and women who are going to argue against doing this. And it and we’ve shoved the actual masculine conservative men who would try to do this sort of thing off into the corner and told them you can’t do that because you’re taking away women’s rights.

Benevolence and respect for men

3:57:30 · Do you think do you think men have uh in or do you think men’s character is inherently good because of the fact that they are men or that they should be respected because of the fact that they are men or because of the way that they act?

3:57:47 · Totally different question. So is men’s character inherit? Why should why should uh women, you know, respect men just as a result of them being men when the majority of men don’t respect themselves? And I’m saying majority because a majority of men do consume pornography voluntarily. So why would so why would women trust these kinds of men to lead society unfortunately uh and make decisions that are you know better for us?

3:58:19 · My argument is that again it comes back to the responsibility.

3:58:23 · But you ask me a question. So we’re gonna let answer the question.

3:58:26 · It goes back to the responsibility of the individual when it comes to all of these things because tomorrow they ban pornography and the next day they’re going to create some other kind of vice that people can go for.

3:58:38 · That’s such such like what and it is up to the individual to going on a diet tribe and you’re just okay.

3:58:47 · You ask me a question. Can I answer it?

3:58:49 · Or are you just going to woman prattle the whole night?

3:58:51 · Uh, that’s what you’ve been doing much.

3:58:55 · Yeah, I I have a loudspeaking voice. I’m very animated. You got me. I talk like this all Anybody who’s seen me on any podcast ever knows like this is just how I talk.

Is Rachel prattling?

3:59:04 · Um, hysterical.

3:59:06 · It’s It’s not hysterical. I’m having fun. I’m winning. I’m having a great time. I I wouldn’t do this if I wasn’t having fun. This is fun for me. I’m having a great time. So, no. I’m just enthusiastic. I’m passionate. That’s not the you you’re crashing out, Rachel.

3:59:21 · You’re hysterical.

3:59:23 · I’m glad you’re having fun.

3:59:23 · Everybody can watch this and they can all see it. So, you’re not gonna I’m glad you’re having fun. Uh if it were just a few years back, somebody like somebody like yourself, somebody being excited and happy and passionate is going to get a lobotomy. Yeah, I know. Are you going to just keep repeating your same five things? Okay.

3:59:42 · Can I answer her question?

3:59:44 · Both of us, Rachel. Both of us. This is just Let me let some chats come in. But we are we are coming up here on the 4hour mark.

3:59:52 · I wanted to just answer a question.

3:59:53 · Let me know when are we closing.

3:59:55 · Really quick before you you do that. Uh because we are coming up on the 4 hour mark. Uh are you guys wanting to get to closing or we can continue on on some more prompts? I’ll leave it up to you guys.

4:00:07 · Um I think I mean I think that we’ve discussed most of the things that we Yeah. So let’s do some chats. Um, let me let some chats come through. Rachel, if you can just keep that thought in the back of your mind, uh, and we can get to that. We have every guy here, uh, we are depressed from women like you telling us we aren’t worth anything. Quick response to that.

Superchats

4:00:30 · That is very sad. That is not true. I’m telling you that the manosphere is telling you that you’re not worth anything.

4:00:37 · What is the What is the manosphere?

4:00:38 · Yeah.

4:00:38 · people like uh you know the Myron Gains shows and they tell you you know you need to be making a million dollars a year to have a family otherwise you’re a loser doesn’t say that.

4:00:49 · Um and so I Hold on a minute. I know Myin and he does not say that.

4:00:53 · I disagree with with that concept. I think Well, you’re disagreeing with a straw man because that’s not the argument that Myin ever makes. He doesn’t tell men that. There’s plenty of men in the manosphere that say, uh, you know, you have to be making a million dollars to consider yourself a man. All I’m saying is that you have Who says that?

4:01:13 · There’s plenty.

4:01:14 · She doesn’t know. She’s just heard.

4:01:15 · She’s like totally heard it. Yes, actually. Yes, actually. But no.

4:01:20 · Is Andrew Wilson in the manosphere?

4:01:22 · Uh, I don’t watch his stuff, so I don’t know.

4:01:25 · Wait, Andrew Wilson? You debated with him?

4:01:27 · Yes, I know. I don’t know what he says outside of like what we talked about on the whatever podcast.

Rachel Wilson and the Manosphere

4:01:34 · Um, well, what do you if you were leaning in one way or the other?

4:01:37 · She said I was in the manosphere. So, is Rachel in the manosphere?

4:01:40 · I I I do believe so because again Rachel I can tell you right now they don’t claim me. Okay. They don’t claim it’s actually just really you and that Pearl uh girl that you as in Rachel.

4:01:54 · Yeah, you Rachel Pearl. I think you two are really the only women I’ve seen on these red pill podcasts basically agreeing.

4:02:01 · What red pill podcast have I been on ever?

4:02:04 · Uh with most of the men’s talking points.

4:02:06 · Are you just going to sit here and lie right to my face? What red pill podcast have I ever been on? Tell me.

4:02:12 · Again, back to Okay, she’s just going to lie. She’s proving she doesn’t know anything about me at all.

4:02:18 · Again, for the men watching this that think uh women are saying that men don’t have inherent value. Uh, not true. Again, make yourself uh, she’s saying your inherent value is to do what she wants.

4:02:30 · No, based on a If you were doing what women want, then you have inherent value. But if not, then you’re a bad man. You’re not doing good enough. You need to be better and do better. And then the women would be better.

4:02:42 · Be somebody that leads. Don’t watch pornography. Take care of your health. That’s all women want. Be a competent person. Be a responsible adult.

4:02:51 · Might ask basically. Might I ask one clarifying question? You say be a man who leads.

4:02:56 · Are you talking on the micro or the macro level?

4:02:58 · On the on both, but prim but it has to start individually first. So yes, lead your own life. Take control of your own life and then you can So should men lead the government?

4:03:09 · She going to tell you how to be a real man and then you can take leadership roles in the government. Yes, absolutely.

4:03:14 · She’s not a feminist, but she’s got a whole list of what she’s going to tell you you need to be doing as a man, but not a feminist. If a man told me good things for me, that just would be better. It doesn’t matter if a man is telling me that.

4:03:27 · Oh, really? I have this sneaking suspicion that if Brian started rattling off to you a bunch of things he thought you needed to be doing better, you’d be like, “Who are you to be telling me? I’m not going to do this.”

4:03:40 · I know.

4:03:40 · I’m pretty sure that’s what we’d get.

4:03:41 · If a man told me, “Hey, you know, you need to take care.” This is all I’m saying. Take care of your uh physical health. you know, don’t engage in any vices, uh, be chased, you know, uh, don’t have, don’t be sexually promiscuous, all of these are good things to prescribe for women as well as men, why would I not listen to that? It doesn’t matter who the messenger is, what’s important is the message.

4:04:05 · So if men tell you, look, I don’t think you should be involved in politics because you can’t defend the nation, you can’t protect the borders, you can’t do the things that people in the government have to necessarily do. So I think you shouldn’t vote. You’re going to be like, “Okay, no, you’re not. You’re going to do what you want cuz you’re a strong woman. You don’t have to cuz some simp out there will come by and and protect you from the bad man telling you what to do.” Because again it’s about the message not the messenger is my argument here.

4:04:36 · Rachel, can I ask you one one question though just on the leading thing?

4:04:41 · If if your argument is that both on the micro and the macro level men should be leaders. What if within the purview of men’s leadership they make a determination uh and this isn’t my position but Rachel was for forwarding this uh they make a determination that women shouldn’t have the right to vote.

4:04:59 · Would you follow in said leadership?

4:05:02 · Uh, nope. Because again, so just to be clear, when men lead, you you have veto power over their leadership.

4:05:11 · Yes. If she doesn’t like it, the So lead me when I’m in the mood to be led.

4:05:18 · A majority of people agree with you, you can lead.

4:05:22 · If a majority that makes you the leader, you realize that, right? If a majority of people decide on one thing that is wrong, it doesn’t make said thing right. Right.

4:05:30 · Oh, so the majority decides what’s moral.

4:05:34 · No, that’s exactly what I said is not the case. If a major a majority does not decide what is moral. So if a majority who decides what’s moral?

4:05:43 · That’s what you and I disagree on. I think morality is something or the understanding of what is right from wrong is inherent within humans. You disagree?

4:05:52 · Clearly not. you disagree with.

4:05:54 · The fact that we have more people in prison than any country in the world would prove you wrong. If everybody just inherently understood right from wrong, we wouldn’t have any of these problems.

4:06:05 · I think people understand it just because they choose to engage in things they know are wrong. That is a completely separate.

Knowing right and wrong and communism

4:06:11 · So you think that women who advocate strongly for abortion rights know theft.

4:06:16 · You think they know abortion is wrong.

4:06:17 · They just won’t admit it to themselves.

4:06:19 · People know theft is wrong but they still steal.

4:06:22 · No, there are legitimately there are legitimately people disagree with that because but socialists, Marxists, communists think if you have more than you need and I don’t I am justified in stealing from you. And that is a large a lot of people.

4:06:40 · Uh okay. That’s people who have run countries.

4:06:42 · Yes. Which I disagree with. But we would both disagree.

4:06:45 · My argument is that people know that it’s inherently wrong.

4:06:49 · So you think they know, but they just but they just do what’s convenient to them. Absolutely.

4:06:53 · I believe people when they tell me who they are. And I think that communists do think, hey, you have a ton of money. You have a ton of money and that’s why I don’t have money and so I need to take it. Yes. I think they do believe that. Okay, th this is just differing values. I think that they know I thought you talk to people all the time about this.

4:07:12 · So you just think everybody secretly knows what’s right and wrong and the only reason they argue against it is because they’re like benefits them in certain cases. Yeah.

4:07:21 · Oh, kind of like you arguing in favor of feminism even though you know it’s when have I argued in this whole podcast.

4:07:29 · In favor of feminism.

4:07:30 · You have argued for feminism this whole podcast. Yes, you have. Uh, again, my only two points, Rachel, what do you think is feminism, then? And you said, I don’t care about the definition, but I want you to define it.

4:07:40 · What’s feminism?

4:07:41 · I’ll tell you what it’s not.

4:07:42 · How do you know you’re not a feminist?

4:07:43 · I’ll tell you what it’s not if you don’t know what it is. Let me speak, Rachel. Um, I’ll tell you what it’s not. Feminism is not uh wanting women to have a vote and financial equality.

4:07:56 · Just more Just more.

4:07:59 · What is the is feminism?

4:08:01 · 90. Would you say what is feminist? If you’re against feminism, what is it that you’re against?

4:08:06 · Rachel, is everybody a feminist?

4:08:08 · No. Answer my question. Don’t ask me a question. Answer my question.

4:08:12 · Andrew knows uh Don’t ask me a question. Answer my question. What is feminism? If you say you’re not a feminist, the question, you can’t dodge that question. It’s the heart of the debate. Material to the conversation.

4:08:25 · What do I think modern feminism is right now? It is promoting uh trans rights, just things that have nothing to do with equality between the sexes, but pushing things that give privileges to women above uh the sexes. So, modern feminism argues for privileges for women, not for equality. Equality between the sexes is not feminism. Does that make sense to you? Does that answer your question? So would you say you would be in favor of like firstwave feminism then?

4:08:59 · The only thing I agree with is voting rights. So legal equality, legal personhood is that so hard of a concept. Anything outside of that I don’t care for don’t agree with and I think is you arguing for privileges in society which I I don’t agree with and I don’t agree with feminism as a result.

4:09:21 · Most women, Democrat, Republican, whatever, uh agree with the concept that women should have the right to vote and uh equal financial. Um Okay, I understand all of that. You’ve told me all of that. So, at least you gave me the.9% of the women uh are feminists. Everybody is a feminist but you, Rachel.

4:09:40 · Yes, we have been lit. No, not everybody but me.

4:09:43 · Okay. You you and Pearl are anyone born Okay, now let me answer your question. Uh-huh.

4:09:49 · Anyone born after 1960 has been living and swimming in feminist water their whole life. They don’t know anything else. It’s the ethos. It’s the I wasn’t.

4:10:00 · It’s the air that we breathe.

4:10:01 · I was raised in a Cuban household by immigrant parents that escaped communism. So, no, I did not. But continue.

4:10:07 · Well, but you live and were raised in and are part of this culture and none of us completely escaped that. Everything you’ve said from your worldview here, you think it’s equality. But let me let me posit this to you.

Equality before feminism

4:10:20 · Women there was already equality before this political feminism is just a political arm of like a basically a spiritual movement. Uh that’s why I wrote the book. It has multiple meanings. But we had equality. The equality was this.

4:10:36 · Women have always been the gatekeepers of sex and who gets to reproduce. That’s why every one of us alive today has twice as many female ancestors as we have male ancestors. The only thing you ever had to do historically in order to be picked and have kids, which you know at a base level what we’re trying to do is reproduce ourselves to get our DNA to continue on into the future. All you had to do as a woman to accomplish that is be fertile. Someone will fertilize you.

4:11:04 · That’s all you had to do. It doesn’t m you can be kind of ugly, you can be fat, you can be not so interesting. You don’t have to do much. You just have to be there and have eggs. Men historically had to survive danger. They had to have respect. They had to have resources. They had to be picked or at least be picked by the girl’s father or something of that nature.

4:11:24 · That by force. Actually, they didn’t have to do any of that. They didn’t have to be respect.

4:11:27 · Well, it depends. So, but then but even by force, you’re competing against all the other men. So, that’s why you had war brides. Historically, if the Vikings could come in and conquer your nation, they could take your women. So you as a man had to defend your nation from the invaders because you don’t want them to take your women because then they take her eggs and now your people are their people. So this is like a fundamentally historical thing that has not gone away.

4:11:52 · And what we did with feminism was we gave women more power by letting them retain the gatekeeping to sex and the gatekeeping to reproduction. And women still have their sexual power, their spiritual power that they’ve always used. Now they have political and legal power and what they’ve done is stacked against deck against men and in doing so unwittingly stacked the deck against themselves and against humanity because now look at what we have. We have no kids. We can’t replace our own population.

4:12:23 · We have to import invaders from the outside world to both Wait, just let me finish. Just let me finish.

Fixing immigration through the birth rate

4:12:31 · We have to We are forced like this is where Republicans get it wrong. If you want to stop immigration, you’ve got to increase the birth rate because we will not have a labor force if we don’t do that. And you can’t increase the labor force if you’re telling women to delay child birth and marriage in order to have a career. We are in a conundrum.

4:12:50 · It’s a catch 22. And so, correct?

4:12:53 · That’s why you don’t focus on rights.

4:12:55 · You focus on duties and you focus on responsibilities. You say individual responsibility, that’s part of it. But part of individual responsibility is also maintaining your tribe and your community and your culture and your society as a whole because your individual rights will go away. We’re on the edge right now of this all falling apart and then strong men will take back over and your women’s rights will go bye-bye.

4:13:21 · Okay. Uh first they need to get their testosterone levels up because right now they are decreasing on average 1% 1% every year since 19 since the 1980s.

4:13:34 · Uh that’s really bad.

4:13:35 · Do you know why do you think men can just like what how do they just get their testosterone back up?

4:13:41 · Be they have to focus on themselves as individuals. Rachel is what I’m trying to guys just focus on yourself as an individual. Your testosterone will go through the roof. Right now it is true that uh outside factors are affecting this. They’re poisoning our food. They’re poisoning our water, our environment.

4:14:00 · Uh so let’s focus we and we can’t really do anything about that ourselves as individuals, we can’t fix the problem. We can only take care of ourselves. And by taking care of ourselves as individuals, we do help society as a whole. That is my argument.

4:14:17 · Yeah. But what what you just did is something else that you’ve been doing all night, which is conflating the problems of postindustrialization and technology with Rights.

4:14:26 · Where have I mentioned industrialization or technology? I’m You haven’t mentioned it, but you don’t understand that the problems the problems you’re putting on men and the problems you’re putting on like gender inequality. That’s not the root of those problems. The root of those problems is industrialization and technology. the same industrialization in technology that allows you to be a feminist.

4:14:47 · Okay? And that’s not going away anytime soon. Unfortunately or fortunately, it doesn’t matter. It is reality, right?

4:14:53 · So, what are you going to do other than Well, it’s a reality. When you don’t like it, but when I say what’s a reality, then you just go no.

Reasons for the nineteenth

4:15:00 · Let me finish talking on that point. It is a reality. So, what are you going to do? Just sit there and complain that we can’t go back to how things were? We can’t do a time about going back. um because that is basically what you’re prescribing and again everything that you have described still doesn’t give any kind of solid argument as to why you

4:15:21 · believe or not you believe as to why women should not have the right to vote which is my argument that again you’re not going to convince differently you’re are I know because you’re stuck you’re stuck in a paradigm where everyone votes I’m saying if you take away this. You don’t have to start with the presupposition that everyone needs to be able to vote. We never did that things that way except for the last hundred years. All of human history, nobody voted.

4:15:51 · Nobody needs to vote.

4:15:52 · And we have a higher despite all of our problems. Uh we do have a higher quality of life right now, but not because of voting. This is this is what I’m saying. She’s life has improved. No, life has improved because of technology, because of advancements in things like medical care, clean water, um industry, and like globally being able to ship supplies to where they need to go. That’s what’s given us a better quality of life, not voting, voting, letting women vote. Did How did women voting improve life for us? Tell me.

4:16:25 · Rachel, you have a monocausal uh argument as to why things are out of whack.

4:16:33 · You have that. No, you have a monocausal argument which is women’s voting uh is what destroyed modern society.

4:16:40 · You never said women’s voting. The voting is a side issue to me.

4:16:44 · Okay.

4:16:45 · There’s other the main issue to me and most but it’s not to me and you keep projecting that on me. Nobody gives a about women voting. Why do you think that women don’t give a about we care about the overall effects of artificially placing women in a strata of power that they have no business being in because it’s deeply unnatural.

4:17:05 · You may not feel comfortable with that, Rachel.

4:17:08 · No, it’s it’s unnatural because they’re only we’re we’re it may not be natural.

4:17:13 · Blowing smoke up women’s asses. They are only there because of a subset of men that go, “Yes, sweetie, you can be in the government. Go ahead. We’ll we’ll do whatever you say. There’s plenty of women in the government.

4:17:23 · It’s all an illusion for you. This is again personal opinion. There are plenty of intelligent, capable women in roles of government that uh are good at what they do and uh we respect. In fact, I’m not saying women can’t be smart and use their brains and think.

4:17:39 · Yeah.

4:17:39 · In fact, most that has no bearing on the fact talking. God, you’ll never finish talking. You’ve been saying the same thing for the last 5 hours and you don’t even understand what you’re talking about. a lot of women that work until in the intelligence community because you know why for a job

4:17:56 · like that you have to have both need voting rights intelligence you don’t need voting rights emotional intelligence women can work in intelligence and they don’t need political power what I’m your argument is that all women are emotional all women are irrational and they are not fit for leadership roles in government you said that a 30 seconds a minute ago part of it. You You only hear one thing because your mind can only think about one thing at a time.

4:18:26 · You’re not very good at taking multiple variables and combining them.

4:18:30 · You No, you are actually just bad again at coping with the reality that women are not a monolith.

4:18:37 · You’re bad at coping with the reality that you only have any rights or have this illusion that you can do the things you can do because men have let you do it. Men have invented technology and granted you rights that let you do it. The reality is me. I’m the one that lives in reality and goes, “Oh, this is all an illusion.” The if the Wizard of Oz wants to take it away tomorrow, it’s gone.

4:18:59 · Okay.

4:19:00 · So, that’s not and it’s not how things have worked except for the last hundred years.

4:19:05 · When you go back home, all of history was wrong except for the last century.

4:19:10 · Uh, I think that not even the last century. I think at least until after they passed the Equal Credit Opportunity Act in 1974, things were wrong because women didn’t have financial opportunity.

4:19:24 · So then what are you trying to conserve?

4:19:26 · If everything we did before 1975 was wrong. What do you want to conserve?

4:19:31 · Putting words in my mouth. Why did I Why did you say everything we did wrong?

4:19:34 · I just asked you. Was all of history conducted? Things were just wrong until 1975.

4:19:40 · One thing was wrong. Not letting women have financial freedom was wrong. That is the thing that that we let them though. It was Do you not understand that it wasn’t that women were denied? It’s that we didn’t have technology. We didn’t have industry. The natural state of things is that women cannot survive alone. We are not rugged individualists. We’re meant to spend most of our life pregnant and breastfeeding and watching toddlers.

4:20:06 · That is what we’re meant to do. Birth.

4:20:09 · No. What about birth control?

Taking away birth control and personal attacks

4:20:11 · In your opinion, Rachel, prior to birth control, there was no option. There was no option. You ended up pregnant.

4:20:18 · Who invented birth control? It was men, Rachel, to make women more accessible and disable.

4:20:24 · So, you think we should take away birth control because the bad men created it?

4:20:27 · I don’t agree with the taking of hormonal birth control because it wrecks havoc on women’s bodies. But again, I agree with you. You just brought up the top.

4:20:35 · But if you do that, you realize, well, what do you think will happen?

4:20:39 · We need you here.

4:20:40 · What do you do think will happen if we need a man on this table? Brian, I got her to to stop.

4:20:46 · I got her, boys.

4:20:47 · To stop the interruptions.

4:20:48 · What do you think happens if we take away from a highly hysterical woman that can’t control herself or her emotions or Oh, that’s beautiful. Cope for the for the girl who can’t think past level two and has been getting her ass beat this whole debate. That’s so cute.

4:21:03 · Sure. It’s a good thing you’re pretty.

4:21:05 · Most uh most rational people watching um are going to disagree with that statement, but uh we’ll see. Again, we’ll see.

4:21:13 · Again, uh Rachel, you still can’t make Okay, so we take away hormonal birth control. Where where’s your girl bossing going to go then?

4:21:20 · Uh in taking back control of our cycles, do you know? Oh, this is something that really pissed off Brian. Who thinks that these 22year-old Only Fans chicks and these promiscuous college girls that are getting blackout drunk every weekend are going to like take a break from that when during their and they’re going to take keep track of their sight. Get the out of here. That’s so ridiculous.

4:21:41 · Very easy.

4:21:42 · Birth control is actually the main technology that has enabled feminism. And if you got rid of hormonal birth control tomorrow, your feminism is gone, baby.

4:21:50 · So, we’re both against uh hormonal birth control.

4:21:53 · Fastest way to get rid of feminism.

4:21:55 · fastest way to get rid rid of all this nonsense of pretending that women can run everything when they can’t.

4:22:01 · Look at that. We are agreeing on something towards the end of this episode, but we are agreeing for different reasons. You are Yeah, you don’t understand the logical entailment of your position as usual.

4:22:12 · You’re arguing against it uh because it would end feminism in your opinion. I argue against it because it is uh terrible. It’s like it’s like giving people poison basically.

4:22:26 · Yeah. It’s almost like trying to avoid getting pregnant your whole life so you can have sex is really bad.

4:22:32 · Uh sure.

4:22:33 · Seems like that’s bad.

4:22:34 · We agree on that same point. Um and again, it all goes back to what Rachel individual and so if all the women are ending up pregnant, how many of them are going to be girl bossing?

4:22:45 · No.

4:22:45 · So, okay. I’m sure. Great. Fantastic.

4:22:48 · You’d love that. Uh there.

4:22:49 · Well, why do you think feminism are going to do the whole Why do you think feminism didn’t come about?

4:22:53 · Do you want me to put a timer on my phone or No, I just want to ask you a question.

4:22:57 · Why did feminism not come about until after the technology allowed it?

4:23:03 · Why wasn’t there feminism 500 years ago?

4:23:05 · If women just were dying to get out of their situation, why didn’t they do something about it 200, 500,000 years ago? Well, the title may have existed only within recent historical concepts, but I think throughout human history, yes, there have been rowdy women advocating for rights. Um, but even if it’s not, but now feminism, even if it’s not documented as feminism. Uh, yes, but now it’s the dominant thing everywhere.

The history of feminine advocacy

4:23:33 · The case everywhere in the west, feminism is the dominant thing. equal rights for women, women in politics, women in power, women in business, right? Why do you think they didn’t do that until 50 years ago?

4:23:47 · Uh Rachel, I’m not again here to argue.

4:23:49 · I don’t know. And I don’t care because I don’t like thinking about things. And I’ll tell you why. Because we didn’t have birth control. We didn’t have technology.

4:23:57 · Do I just like tap this?

4:23:58 · Well, I’m tired of just listening to you endlessly pratt. So now I’m going to prattle back a little bit.

4:24:02 · You’ve been the one most chats.

4:24:04 · Yeah, let’s do some chats. Do some chats. You’ve been the one mostly interrupting uh during this entire time because you don’t dominant because you don’t have I’m a very dominant woman. Uh I don’t have good arguments. No. Oh honey, I can’t wait for you to read the comments.

4:24:19 · And you don’t want to listen to valid ones. So you try to That’s so cute from somebody who went to college for politics and doesn’t know she’s a libertarian. That’s cute.

4:24:31 · It is called the hecklers veto. So you don’t let people talk. um so that people can get their point across. That’s what you put a poll in the chat of who has interrupted and prattled the most. It’s not me. We got to the end and I was just like, “Fuck it. I’m just going to talk over her at this point.”

4:24:48 · We actually did. Wait, really quick. We we did do a poll because I think you had asked or there was a discussion between the both of you as to who would be most likely to get lobotomized and the results the results from you.

4:25:04 · Uh I think it was skewing quite heavily towards you being the one to get labed.

4:25:12 · I’m so surprised by those results from this audience.

4:25:14 · Can Can you get an elective?

4:25:16 · Why are you such a hater? Why do you got to hate on millions of people that watch this show? Are they all incelss?

4:25:21 · Um, if a lot of them are, uh, I’m here to try to help them not be. And Oh, thank God.

4:25:28 · And what you are What do we do without your help?

4:25:31 · And what you are prescribing them here, we got chats. We got chats.

4:25:34 · And what you are prescribing them is going to keep them as incelss for much much longer, Rachel. So, you’re not doing them any kind of favor, right?

4:25:42 · I I doubt this, but okay. Uh, we have base Justin here. So men should lead the government based on what the w the women who voted them into power want. Define leadership, please. And of course, your husband can only lead if you completely agree. Got it. Tick tock.

Superchats

4:25:59 · Mhm.

4:25:59 · Um quick response to this, but then I need to get through the rest of the chats that uh Okay. That whole argument just doesn’t make any sense to me. Period. Well, it was I think on the back of the question I asked you if uh you believe that men should lead both on the micro and the macro level. You you agreed to that.

4:26:21 · Yeah.

4:26:21 · And primarily themselves when a singular woman or women plural uh disagree with men’s leadership, do you defer to their leadership despite disagreeing with their decision or do you veto their leadership? I think uh I think that right is right and wrong is wrong. And uh what who’s the arbiter of that facts right facts don’t care about your feelings.

4:26:47 · If a man facts determine what’s right and wrong if a yeah if a man you know says you know because of the fact that I am a man I determine this but this is just wrong then it’s wrong.

4:26:59 · Would it be could it be established by consensus?

4:27:03 · It has to be verifiable uh fact right?

4:27:07 · So if a man says I don’t even know what example to what if how about this to come up with what if all the women were in favor of open borders and men were against it and because you might have people on the left for example I mean you you’re both conservative you have people on or at least right it’s it’s wrong to allow open borders the man wants it whether the woman wants it but leftists will forward arguments about how well there’s actually economic benefits to having uh immigration to this level.

4:27:38 · Well, then we’d have to bring out little notes and facts and show how it’s not. Um in fact, there’s plenty of not just studies. This is just facts from the government how migration is a net um detriment to society. Pretty much migrants people have other facts contrary to there’s no such thing there’s no such thing as different facts.

4:27:58 · And that liberals and leftists will forward contrary facts. can they can pullies there’s no such thing as brute facts it always depends on framing it always depends on context and framing yes this is why I say you’re not capable of thinking past like level one so for example when it comes to the argument that uh Brian facts are just facts when it comes to the argument that Brian just mentioned they took a sample of migrants that were in the country for

4:28:28 · uh 30 years and they broke it up into their nationality ity uh that they come from and they saw that no matter the nationality they were a net tax burden on society i.e.

4:28:41 · are women a net tax burden on society?

4:28:43 · No, I think you pulled that up last time and showed that that was not the case.

4:28:47 · I think it did show that it was the case.

4:28:49 · I would love to chime in on that if I can.

4:28:52 · Really quick though, really quick here.

4:28:53 · Let’s do this. Let me let me let a few more chats come through. Guys, if you’re enjoying the stream, like the video. Uh what are we on likes? I think we just hit 4,000 likes. I would love We still have about 9,000 people viewing just here on Whatever. We have another thousand on on Twitch, a couple hundred on Kick, and then I think there’s like 56,000 watching on the Crucible. Guys, can we get the likes to 5,000 likes? We’re at 4,000 likes. Let’s get it to 5,000. Let me let chats come through. We do have uh Dofus here. That’s his name. Doofus. All right, woman.

4:29:26 · Come change my toilet and fix my washer and then grill then provide for the family. Uh that is from Dofus.

4:29:38 · Thank you, Doofus. And he has a followup which reads, “She doesn’t even know.” It’s coming in just a moment. She doesn’t even know what a straw man is. That’s his followup there.

4:29:51 · So he he gave $200 to to just write that.

4:29:56 · Crazy.

4:29:56 · Yes.

4:29:56 · He he did have taken a lady could have taken a lady out on a date for that amount of money and actually could you tell us how we get how do we get an uh from an is because that’s what he was addressing.

4:30:09 · You’re saying facts are just facts and I have facts. Okay, you have facts. How do the facts tell us what we should or ought do?

4:30:17 · So it takes rational rational people coming to having a discussion and presenting the facts. What are you what are you trying to argue? You should look up Hume’s guillotine when you get home.

4:30:28 · I know you don’t do philosophy, but there is no way to get there is no way to get an ought from an is. You can’t say this is the case. So, like if you said somebody on the show said this recently, they were talking about this like specific example.

4:30:42 · Yeah.

4:30:42 · You know, it’s cold outside, therefore you ought fix your refrigerate. Like, you can’t take something that is the case and then extrapolate a moral uh from it. So, if you say that’s a terrible example, I’m sure.

4:30:57 · It’s probably a terrible example, but how do you jump from saying this is the fact of the matter to this is what we ought do about it because everyone’s going to have different ideas about what we ought to do about it, which is something you said yourself. You’re like, Democrats will get into office and they’ll have a totally different view and they’ll say we ought to do this instead.

4:31:14 · Yes.

4:31:14 · Uh it doesn’t change again, it doesn’t change facts behind it, right? So, Democrats are going to say, “Oh, we ought to allow open borders.” The facts are that that negatively impacts our country. Whether they do it or not or allow it or not, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s detrimental.

4:31:34 · But then they’ll just So, you’ll say, “Here’s the reasons we think it’s bad.” And they’ll say, “Here’s the reasons we think it’s good.”

4:31:39 · They have no good logical reasons other than the facts don’t tell other than, “Oh, cultural enrichment or diversity.” We do have a response from from Dofus here. Uh he says he is a man and he can afford to because he’s worked for a living.

4:31:56 · Good. That’s $300 now that could have gone to something more productive to a woman.

4:32:00 · To a woman.

4:32:02 · Should he have spent it on Only Fans instead of this?

4:32:05 · He probably does that as well. I I would What would you have with that?

4:32:10 · I would bet money on that, too. um or some kind of pornography. But uh again, should men should spend more money on a date than p than than be a patron of a podcast?

4:32:25 · Coming uh totally understand uh the point of of self-interest there. So I I get it.

4:32:31 · Right. Well, in any case, we have Let me get through the rest of the chats. Red Fox 11 FEMCON, are you a good example for women?

4:32:40 · Where’s the fem? Are they sitting back there?

4:32:43 · I I think it’s you. It might be you.

4:32:45 · Oh, it’s definitely not me. I’m like trying to look for her fem.

4:32:49 · Look, you can say you’re not a feminist, but the facts demonstrate that you are. The fact is that all of your positions are feminist and classical liberal and you are. The fact is you’re not a conservative and you’re a feminist.

4:33:03 · You’re a libertarian left-leaning feminist based on the facts.

4:33:07 · Absolutely

4:33:07 · wild. Um, again, I think that people watching this that have two sense, two brain cells will determine the opposite of that. Uh, I think that you just come from I don’t think they will. I think you are I think you grossly underestimate a position of you grossly overestimate your intelligence and you grossly underestimate the intelligence of normal people to understand what just happened.

4:33:33 · Grossly uh mischaracterize people’s intelligence and your own. just yours and it makes you just yours.

Brute facts and defining shoulds

4:33:41 · Look, I can’t explain the is ought gap to you. You don’t understand it. And I don’t know how to fix that for you.

4:33:47 · You don’t understand that there’s no such thing as brute facts that don’t have context. And you don’t understand that you can’t take an is or an ought prescription for what we should do in a moral quandry from a brute fact.

4:34:00 · I I don’t know why you don’t get that, but you don’t.

4:34:03 · I get I get what you’re saying, Rachel. You’re the one making the ought argument. We ought to not You are You’re saying we ought to grant rights. We ought to give women this. We ought We ought to not allow women to vote.

4:34:16 · She doesn’t even understand that. The whole time she’s just been asserting ought claims. The whole time she’s just been going, we ought to have rights. We ought to let women do. The whole time has just been you asserting ought claims, Rachel.

4:34:29 · And when I say, “What do you base that on? What’s your epistemology? Where do you get that from?” You just say I just think and I just you said natur the closest you got to was naturalism but naturalism natural law would dictate patriarchy. Patriarchy would be natural law and you reject patriarchy. You want equality. Equality is not natural. The natural world does not have any concept of equality and legal and you don’t get legal framework.

4:34:54 · Legal framework is not determined. framework is not determined on college degrees.

Joint banking accounts + insulting…

4:35:05 · Facts don’t care about feelings. Rachel, why do you have a joint bank account with Andrew? Don’t you trust your husband to manage all finances by himself? The men will never take rights from the women, so who cares if they can?

4:35:18 · What? They’re asking why I have a joint bank. I said I don’t have bank accounts in my own name.

4:35:25 · Yeah. She said, “Why do you even have a joint one? Why doesn’t Andrew have the bank account himself?

4:35:30 · He does have multiple accounts that are only in his name. The only one I have access to is the one that he wants me paying bills out of cuz I do the paperwork part of the budget every month.

4:35:40 · Okay. So, that’s their argument is why, you know, do you have a joint one?

4:35:44 · So, so that I can do the bills cuz he told me to do the bill. He says, I don’t like doing paperwork and bills. I’d rather you handle all that. So, I’m going to put that money that I want you to distribute to bills in that account, and that’s what you can use to shop and pay for things. He’s got his own account still.

4:36:02 · There is Yeah. One joint account. So, what do you think about this though? So, Andrew um and he’s been doing this. He’s been financially abusing Rachel for years.

4:36:13 · You know what’s crazy?

4:36:14 · You know, wait. her her book her book royalties the the money she makes from her book uh Andrew steals that from Rachel and buys firearms. How do you feel about that? Do you how do you feel about that?

4:36:28 · I don’t You know what I what I will say is when I first spoke to your uh husband Well, do you want to address the stealing of the book royalties?

4:36:36 · Yes. You know, poor Rachel, we need to start a bonaf for Rachel to have the financial freedom.

4:36:43 · Andrew will also steal uh afford to afford financial independence and and choose, you know, what to do with her life. No, when I first uh when I But I’ve already chosen what I want to do with my life and it’s to honor and serve my husband. When I first uh I’m very happy. I don’t need your help. You have Listen, you have nothing I want.

4:37:04 · I was thinking of starting.

4:37:06 · You have nothing in life that I want. I’ve got kids. I’ve got a husband. I’ve accomplished a lot in the intellect. I’ve done everything I There’s nothing you have that I want. So, please don’t help me. Please, I don’t want your help.

4:37:19 · Likewise. Um, but you said you wanted to have a husband and kids and I am. It’s a timeline matter, not a Okay. So, I do have I do have something goals. You ask me the same. I’m goals for her. You guys, I’m goals.

4:37:34 · Are your eggs Have you frozen your eggs or uh No, I have not frozen my eggs. Fine.

4:37:40 · I believe it. I believe it. Yeah, my eggs are fine. It’s It’s more the men that quite literally need to be checking up on their um the same.

4:37:49 · I love how you think they’re going to win over the public opinion by constantly insulting men this Oh, you’ve been insulting men this whole podcast.

4:37:58 · I’m telling men I’m telling men unhealthy. They have I’m telling them how they can be better testosterone level of their grandparents in this day and age as the average testosterone for men within their 30s and their 40s. That’s my grandma would be like, “You know what? You want to talk about people’s grandparents? If my grandma was here, she’d be like, “If you want kids, you better get on it.” So, I mean, like, let’s not talk about all the men.

4:38:25 · I like talked about the men. I’ve That’s all you’ve done this whole show. You’ve been calling them incelss, telling them how they’re not good enough, telling them where they need to do better. Men be better.

4:38:36 · If the men be better, the women will be better after. But you have to be better first and you have to lead. But only the way that we want you to leaders vetoers.

4:38:45 · If you let if you lead in the way that we approve of, then we’ll let you lead and then we’ll do stuff if we want to. But it just depends. We have to do what we want.

4:38:55 · We have a hysteric woman here. Maybe we need a lobotomy.

4:38:57 · I’m doing an impression of you. I’m gonna both of you. How about that?

4:39:01 · Here, look. Let’s uh let me get through some of the chats. We have Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. We got some chats. We got Pasty George. Hey, it’s our good friend Pasty George. Guys, I think it’s been a month or two. Can we get some in the chat for Pasty George? It’s been a while since we’ve seen the guy. Thank you, man. Brian, could you please make a poll asking the chat who they think?

4:39:18 · Rachel or they spelled it wrong. How um Big Can I call you Big D?

4:39:24 · No, we need to people. We need get to get to them.

4:39:27 · I don’t know the on the right.

4:39:29 · Hold on and finish it. Uh is making the more valid points in their arguments using facts rather than hearsay anecdotes. I did do that for who should who would be most likely to be lobbomized.

4:39:41 · Uh I I could do that once I get through the chats. But Py George, good to see you. We have guys and if you want to get messages in, uh now’s a good time. We have I am right. If I tell you the sky color is red, you can never tell me I’m wrong. Because as a man, if it is up to me, I can force you into a cage and hurt you until you tell me I’m right. Uh, sorry, lady.

4:40:06 · That kind of that proves my point.

4:40:08 · He’s being hyperbolic.

4:40:10 · I know, but that proves my point that it still doesn’t make it a reality. That’s literally the argument I’ve been going up against.

4:40:17 · It’s actually reality, though. Like, yes. It doesn’t change the fact of the sky being a different color.

4:40:24 · Oh, I thought you meant cage.

4:40:26 · Sam donated $200.

4:40:30 · Thank you, Sam.

4:40:31 · Explain Hume’s guillotine, please. It’s pertinent to this debate.

4:40:36 · Rachel, do you want I can then explain uh something else that you obviously are not an expert on, but sure. Go ahead.

4:40:43 · The ludial phases or whatever.

4:40:45 · Oh god, not the phases. Getting I know kind of a lot about that. I’ve had a lot of babies and Mhm. female things. Uh well, just to put it like super plainly because I’m not a specialist in this. Andrew is. I’m okay at philosophy. I’m good at basic logic.

4:41:01 · I’m pretty good at like fallacies and spotting them and stuff like that. But it’s just the idea that you can’t take an is statement and get a moral ought from that statement. It was a it’s a classical philosophical problem that Hume kind of popularized and it just people assume that if they just state facts that the logical inference of what morally should be done about them is obvious and that’s not the case and she couldn’t prove it was the case the whole time.

Superchats

4:41:31 · So sure I thought before you get into the ludal phases or whatever.

4:41:37 · Yeah, might as well get something.

4:41:38 · Tiffany, can you pull up Twitch really quick? Guys, if you’re enjoying the stream, like the video, get us get us to 5,000 likes. Also, guys, if you have a Twitch account, uh, drop us a follow.

4:41:47 · And if you have a Prime sub, drop us a Prime. If you have Amazon Prime, you can link it to our Twitch. Quick for easy way to support the show every single month. Guys, can you get us We need four followers to get to 121,000 followers. And drop us a Prime sub if you have one available. We barely run any ads over there on Twitch. Only three per hour.

4:42:05 · That’s the minimum you can run without somebody getting hit with a pre-roll. So, show us some love. Drop us a prime sub over there on Twitch. We have some more chats coming in. We have Turbo Bill TPUSA FEMCON. Instead of asking why people are sending in money to ask the questions, why not just answer the fuking questions? Such a bad faith guest avoiding super chats.

4:42:32 · Somebody needs to, you know, just calm down a little before typing things out. such passive aggressive women stuff to constantly accuse Oh my god, are you mad? I made you mad. Wow, are you crashing out? Such a Gen Z thing. Are you, dude? Why are you crashing out right now? Oh my gosh. And people are like, we’re not millennial. Are you I think I’m a millennial. You’re Gen X.

4:42:53 · Tik Tok brain.

4:42:54 · Uh oh, definitely Gen Z. Um are you on Tik Tok though a lot?

4:43:00 · I am on Tik Tok for work reasons because I’m in media and and marketing. Um, but yeah, accusing other people of like getting upset and losing their cool when they’re clearly not is like a Gen Z meme.

4:43:15 · You Yeah, youent times before.

4:43:18 · Yeah.

4:43:18 · Okay. Most doofus here doing a little followup. I mean, the guy you wish, you know, for some of these guys, this is what you know 350. We’re at 350 from Dofus.

4:43:28 · It is below the threshold, but you know, some of these guys, you know, they they they’re patrons of the show. They want to they we got to put on more debates, you know, so they want to support the show. And I mean, this guy probably wants to pop a ball of champagne or something at this point. I don’t know. But uh Oh, wait. I already showed this one. My apologies.

4:43:46 · We have one coming in from the unknown soldier. Uh it’s going to be a bit of a delay, but he writes, “She’s the epitome of the utterly failed education system in America. She’s too dumb and has way too much ego to recognize it. Like all college educated women, listen to your conscious conscious Brian.

4:44:08 · So all college educated.

4:44:11 · Does he mean the super chat or conscious Brian?

4:44:13 · Brian consciousness or whatever it is.

4:44:16 · All college educated women uh have too much ego and yeah that’s probably another reason why they do tend to be overly confident in their intellectual capabilities. It sounds like somebody’s ego is threatened by educated women.

4:44:34 · Well, we have piano dean and he says, “It’s amazing how many times in this debate, Drianna, he got it. He got it right. He wrote it right.”

4:44:45 · has agreed with Rachel yet somehow believing she won the point. Thank you, Piano Dean. And by the way, thank you everyone else who has sent in messages. Uh you can yeah because the only thing I disagree with Rachel on is on women voting and you disagree on quite a bit more than that uh having equal financial rights.

4:45:06 · So being an equivalent to men according to the law which is just rational and a conservative position again missing the isot gap and you had a lot more to say that you disagreed with. You brought several color-coded folders which very th those were just printed facts.

4:45:23 · Yeah.

4:45:23 · I’m just saying you clearly had a whole bunch of stuff and no, you don’t agree with me on anything. You you don’t agree with me that you’re a libertarian. You don’t agree with me that you’re a feminist. You don’t agree with me that women don’t need political power in order to not be oppressed. You think that unless they have financial and political power, they’re somehow oppressed. If I call you something, you’re not. If I call you a selfhating by definition, you are does that make you You’re like the trans people who are like, “But I identify as a conservative though.”

Finding agreement

4:45:55 · And I’m like, “You don’t hold any conservative positions.” And you’re like, “But I call myself. I identify as conservative.”

4:46:02 · You’ve you are the one that have explicitly said you’re not a conservative, right?

4:46:07 · You’re way further right than that.

4:46:10 · You’re not a constitutionalist. You do not believe in the US Constitution. You do not believe in a constitutional republic. You believe in a monarchy.

4:46:19 · I think you could have I think you could conceive of a constitutional republic that could work, but you’d have said you’d have to limit suffrage or you get progressivism and the end result is this garbage we have now. That’s you that’s what will happen every time. I prefer a monarchy monarchy.

4:46:34 · Um church and state working together. It’s called Symphonia. The Byzantine Empire, which was the longest lasting empire in history, had this system. None of this is compatible with Western values or uh conservatism in the United States.

4:46:50 · American conservatism is dead and has been since Pat Buchanan fell out of the limelight.

4:46:57 · And I don’t believe in Western values.

4:46:59 · That’s why I’m not I’m not a western liberal. You are a classical liberal. That’s Western values. You believe American classical liberalism is your ethos. It is not mine. I don’t my again trying to box me into certain labels and that’s not exactly that just came through right now. The 50-year-old woman doesn’t know how to control her emotions.

4:47:22 · Of course, this audience is going to like Rachel the promiscuous. Okay. Well, I’m not I’m not at all. I’ve never been promiscuous.

4:47:33 · So, yeah. And I haven’t uh gone there and attacking her.

4:47:36 · Scoot uh scoot like one inch.

4:47:39 · There’s a lot of rumors that you hear about me online that are not true. So, it’s probably good that you didn’t go there cuz it only people just lie. Only people just lie.

4:47:48 · A troll.

4:47:49 · The only thing I know is obviously you have children from previous marriages and you know there’s three or previous relationships and you have children from three two previous relationships from three different relationships is what is online. Also, because you and Andrew have done a really good job at cleaning up your online uh presence. I actually had somebody reach out to me who’s uh a private investigator um because they watched the first show and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, you know, this guy’s kind of crazy, your husband.

A private investigator reached out to her…

4:48:17 · I wonder who he is.

4:48:18 · Wait, wait, hold on. If I wonder who he is and uh this feels like it’s getting into like a doc.”

4:48:23 · No. And then territory. I don’t want to go.

4:48:26 · A private investigator.

4:48:28 · Yeah. Yeah. reached out to me and anybody who tries to dig into your online now and then tried to find info on you online and my point is I don’t think it’s fair to reveal anything that’s fair to reveal things some private investigator it’s hard to find stuff on me because we’re old and I don’t like we didn’t have an online life until like 5 years ago that’s immaterial to the conversation rubbing of what hold on Oh, bologoney.

4:48:59 · Alan Roach, a $100 Australian. Just grant or give her the unborn males. It makes no difference. They will not survive long enough to raise them and would not have the skills to teach them.

4:49:11 · That’s correct. This did come in.

4:49:12 · I thought about going into that, but it’s just like she just stonewalls and obuscates, so it doesn’t matter.

4:49:20 · One more.

4:49:20 · All right, we have uh Andrew Thrasher here. Good evening. whatever podcast. Former senior airman Andrew Thrasher here. Question for the fake conservative. What exactly do you bring to society? What makes you a productive member of society? Other than giving false information, what are you worth? I don’t see it. Not one step back.

4:49:41 · Again, I don’t know who the fake conservative is here, but uh I will say that I am a high uh contributor to not just society, but in taxes that I pay uh in actually helping conservatives get elected. Not just saying uh women bad, stupid, and should not vote. I actually have knocked doors so that conservatives get elected. not just talk about getting conservatives elected or how bad the situation is.

4:50:11 · I’ve actually talked the talk and walked the walk, something Rachel here has not done. Um, and so and so demonstrate that.

Rachel’s audience

4:50:21 · Yeah, there’s pictures online on my social media profiles of the work that I’ve done to actually elect. You think I need to go out and get GOP candidates elected when I don’t uh I think support get people that believe what you believe elected if you actually want to uh basically prove that you’re serious about what you believe in.

4:50:42 · You know what’s more effective than that? Winning the propaganda war and taking back the institutions. If you want to talk about prescript I don’t suck at that. I Yes, you do. Because most of your followers are men. Most of the people That’s not true. This book that support this book right here. No, that’s not that’s actually not true. This book right here cracked I’ll explain it right now and I’ll prove it. This book cracked the top 30 on all of Amazon books, which is practically unheard of for a self-published book. It is vastly out sold things from mainline publishers.

4:51:15 · Okay.

4:51:15 · I have Do you deny that most of Do you deny that most of your following is is men?

4:51:21 · It depends on what platform you look at. So, like my Substack, my Substack readers are actually mostly women.

4:51:26 · Most um I’m not really on YouTube. Uh I’m not really on Instagram. I’m only on X. And on X, it’s like a 7030 split.

4:51:36 · But uh I get the most emails, DMs, and letters in the mail from women who say, “Thank you for giving me a voice.” Because as a stay-at-home mom, I always felt less than. I always have been made to feel by the women around me like I’m not doing enough, like I’m a loser. Um, thank you for that. Like I get tons of mail from women.

4:51:56 · Well, that’s really sad that that is the case that they’re being told that. But I think the reason they feel that way is not because other women are saying it that they don’t have inherent value. I think if it’s not mostly men, it’s at an equivalent level because a lot of men think, “Oh, you’re just a stay-at-home mom. What is it that you bring to the table? If I’m providing food and shelter for you, you get to stay at home.

4:52:25 · I never I never get criticized by men for being a stay-at-home mom. I never get criticized by men. I have gotten criticized by women for it my whole life, including a Candace Owens staffer who told me I wasn’t a good American because I wasn’t contributing to the GDP.

4:52:40 · Uh, okay.

4:52:41 · It’s always been fem women who come at me.

4:52:44 · Um, no. Well, in my and leftist women, in my uh in my situation, it’s definitely been men being the ones that say that women don’t have uh value if they are just stay-at-home moms. And that is a luxury for men to conservative men say this.

Solving the shame for stay-at-home mothers

4:53:02 · Not conservative men. I’m saying men in general. Men have I don’t hear men say that.

4:53:07 · Men in general are saying what? that there’s a lot of men that believe that women don’t have value or aren’t contributing equally to them for being stay-at-home moms, that they should consider themselves lucky to be able to stay at home with the kids while they pay for food and shelter. Um, that is a belief that a lot of men hold and it is probably contributing to women like the ones you mentioned feeling less than for being stay-at-home women.

4:53:37 · Uh, I think that women more than anybody understand the value of being mothers because we we know that we know we know what we have to call the baby factory. I’ve been told I’m a brainwashed victim. You yourself have inferred that like I’m only here because I’m a pick me. I’m not using my own thoughts. I’m not using my own brain to look at the world and go wait everything is up. This is not how things should be. So, so women shouldn’t vote as your perspective.

4:54:08 · No, you you don’t take me seriously because I don’t hold your feminist views. You think that my I don’t take you serious. The only reason your argument your final argument is women shouldn’t vote. That’s why I don’t take you seriously.

4:54:20 · I don’t care about the whole women voting. That’s a stuck in your craw.

4:54:24 · It’s not stuck in mine. Whatever. I don’t think women should vote. So what?

4:54:29 · Why does that make Why do you think it’s cool to call me names like a pick me and infer that I don’t have my own mind?

4:54:35 · that I didn’t come up with this. Do you think men wrote my book for me? Do you think men told me to say this? Or do you think or do you think that I am a actually a really smart person who looked around and went everything is out of order. Everything is all up now. How did we get here? That’s how I started writing this by looking around at the world and the way it is and going this is out of order. Things are all messed up. What is wrong here? And through the process of my own analysis, how did you end up with the wrong conclusion though that wrong that women shouldn’t vote.

4:55:06 · It’s not women. Feminism has destroyed life for women. And if you want to talk about how things have turned out, I’m not I’m not arguing.

4:55:14 · Tell me what feminism has done to improve life for women. Like you’re not going to get me to argue for something I don’t believe in.

4:55:20 · You have lost this debate badly and you are coping.

4:55:24 · I think people watching I think people watching will be determining that too. The fact that at the end of this you’re trying to get me to argue in favor of feminism, which I have not done this entire time.

4:55:37 · You have and you just don’t realize it because you don’t understand words.

4:55:41 · You don’t understand the meaning of words.

4:55:42 · I think we’re ready for closing statements. At least I am. Are you, Rachel?

4:55:46 · Sure.

4:55:46 · Yeah.

4:55:46 · Um, we’ll get into that in just a moment. Um, and I don’t know if this adds at least some degree of clarity here at the end on that last point. Uh Andrew Wilson, who you squared up against and is obvious well Rachel’s husband, uh he describes feminism as a uh movement towards egalitarianism with a rejection of patriarchy. Would you agree with that definition of feminism?

Viewpoints that differ from feminism

4:56:14 · No. Um I think that feminism just argues for additional rights above uh egalitarian rights to men. I think that’s what crosses the line to feminism.

4:56:26 · Like what?

4:56:26 · Wait, they everything outside of Yeah. Everything outside of voting and equal financial.

4:56:32 · Well, what’s one thing that that you think feminism advocates for that you don’t?

4:56:38 · Um special treatments like what?

4:56:41 · Like let’s say um hiring requirements, quotas for women um in the workplace. So you have to have x amount of women and and x amount of men. I’m against that. That’s special treatments. That’s not hiring based on competency or skill. It’s hiring based on gender, which is wrong. It’s DEI. So, I’m against DEI.

4:57:01 · You’re against DEI, but you’re for forcing banks to force financial equality. Uh, that’s and you’re for forcing political straw man. What I’m trying to tell you is that you’re trying to misrepresent trying to misrepresent my position which is all that law did is that it stopped banks from discriminating based on gender. Not too close. She’s just going to keep repeating forcing banks to give out loans or credit based on gender.

4:57:30 · That is a completely different thing and that is false.

4:57:32 · I’ve got two more super chats and then we’ll get into the closing. Uh Jory, thank you for your super chat. Brianna, that’s some sort of mutant combination of us dragons. Uh, have you read An Rand?

4:57:45 · Einrand.

4:57:47 · I apologize for the misprononunciation.

4:57:49 · It sounds like you would describe to her philosophy, subscribe to her philosophy of objectivism.

4:57:56 · Um, I do agree with a lot of the ideas behind objectivism. Absolutely. Uh, I think everybody should read some of Einran’s works like uh The Fountain Head and Atlas Shrugged. You’ve have Have you heard of that one before?

4:58:14 · You know, she’s like one of the top libertarian philosophers, right?

4:58:17 · I I know that.

4:58:18 · So, just embrace the libertarian.

4:58:21 · You’re a libertariance from where I want to reach.

4:58:24 · Wait, didn’t she have some rather sexist views? That’s why I say I don’t necessarily feminist enough to that’s why I say I don’t you know label myself by yeah she openly rejected feminism objectivism or libertarianism or conservatism fully. I pick and choose based on from what I think is is right and most people if more people did that I think we’d be better off for sure.

4:58:51 · All right well Jory thanks for your super chat. We have red fox blonde Cuban chick for the third time. Do you think you are a good role model for women?

4:58:58 · Stop running from the question.

Superchats

4:59:01 · Absolutely.

4:59:01 · I am uh financially responsible. I am uh somebody that times the basically what I’m going to do with my life and and having kids and a family when it’s when it’s right so that I don’t become a burden upon society, a tax burden or shift my responsibilities to anybody else. And I’m also going to make sure I give my kids a father that uh stays within their life for the rest of their life.

4:59:31 · So yeah, uh definitely a benefit to society. And like I said, I’ve also made sure that I advocate and work for electing the people that have these conservative values. Not just talk about it, actually get out in the field and and do it like Trump with his conservative values. Uh definitely better than the other options.

4:59:55 · I voted for Trump. He’s better, but he’s not conservative. Nobody is not conservative at all. Do you think for office then, Rachel?

5:00:03 · Why would I do that?

5:00:04 · Well, don’t criticize other people.

5:00:06 · You know what? You’re right. I’m going to do that. I’m going to run for office and then when I win, I’m just going to abdicate my seat to my husband. I’ll just be like, you can just take over.

5:00:16 · That’s what I’ll do.

5:00:17 · I mean, that’s what That’s funny. That’s what some people some politicians have done. Yeah.

5:00:22 · Do you have a critique of either Rachel or Andrew or I suppose even possibly me or even other people who uh do online discourse and are primarily online uh that cuz you you’re describe yourself as a conservative operative that you know you’re not going that we’re not going out doortodoor knocking on doors. What what’s that called?

5:00:46 · There’s a term canvasing. Canvasing grass work. It could be canvasing as well.

5:00:51 · Is that what you did was canvasing?

5:00:53 · Um I that was part of it. Uh but mostly actually mobilizing people as well to do that. Do it myself because you have to lead by example but also mobilizing other people to do that. That is part of grassroots um work. Yes.

5:01:09 · But would you say that at least for the 2024 election uh the most recent election did I knock doors? Yes. Well, did I get do you think that the work you did and to be fair I’m not familiar precisely or in in total of everything you’ve done.

5:01:27 · Do you think that that is uh superior superior to say the work Rachel has done or Andrew has done or I have done or other online creators have done in perhaps the success of Donald Trump’s campaign?

5:01:42 · That’s a very specific question. I think that you have maybe in your specific show, you’ve probably mobilized men to go vote for sure and and hyped them up for for Donald Trump. Uh has it had a similar issue within the female population? I think it’s the opposite. So, I don’t know.

5:02:02 · You think we’ve had a negative I I I don’t know. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I think the following of this show was mostly men anyways. Uh yeah, sure. So, uh, since you target them and what do you mean target them?

5:02:17 · Well, you you have a base that you can talk to and mobilize that is mostly men and if you tell them to go vote for, you know, Donald Trump, then that does help that campaign and that and that movement. Abs. Absolutely. Now, what it does society, the other one, the one that Rachel’s going to be here for tomorrow and that I was on here last time, is it helping men and women uh come together more?

5:02:40 · Is it helping men view women in a healthy fashion or is it warping men’s reality of women to where they think, well, most women out there are sexually promiscuous. There’s a lot of women out there that uh work that are working in sex work. Uh most women are not claim we already discussed very intelligent because you know they answer total strong men never made that claim that are that are simple correctly.

5:03:12 · I think that aspect of the show uh definitely divides the sexes and doesn’t help as a society. Can I ask you a question? If uh so you’re uh given that you’re conservative, do you think are you anti-trans?

5:03:31 · Uh yeah.

5:03:32 · Okay.

5:03:32 · Do you think that that’s divisive to humanity? Because clearly there are people who are protrans. So you’re just like on a going even beyond gender, beyond sex, uh you’re just divisive on a humanity level.

5:03:46 · Uh no, that would be divisive, wouldn’t it?

5:03:48 · No. Because uh there’s first of all there’s no such thing as trans. There’s just men and women.

5:03:55 · People disagree with you.

5:03:56 · Body dysmorphia. That’s basically Okay. Well, I agree with you on that point, but other people disagree with you.

5:04:02 · Okay.

5:04:02 · Is it divisive?

5:04:04 · Does it help society if I affirm a trans person’s delusions? No.

5:04:10 · Does it affirm society if I affirm a woman’s delusions that she deserves a man who makes $10 million a year when she’s an average woman?

5:04:18 · No. No. But it also doesn’t but it would be divisive, wouldn’t it?

5:04:21 · But what would be wrong with that?

5:04:23 · No. But it doesn’t help it doesn’t help show men that these are these are the women that are out there when they’re less than 1% of the population.

5:04:33 · What do you mean? Who’s less than 1% of the population?

5:04:37 · For example, sex workers.

5:04:38 · The majority of our guests are not sex workers.

5:04:40 · Are one less than 1% of We already went over this. And the the amount of sex workers he’s had on the show are representative of the amount of sex workers in the population. They went over the statistics live.

Criticisms of the podcast

5:04:52 · Yeah.

5:04:53 · You may not have seen that.

5:04:54 · Yeah.

5:04:54 · And I uh I again don’t have the statistics. You can pull them up from YouTube or whatever. I think in the past year and I haven’t watch this show uh beginning to end, especially the ones on Sundays because it’s a 10-hour podcast.

5:05:08 · Um, but yes, I think anybody that follows the social media accounts, Instagram, and gets clips would make the rational would would believe that the majority of women that go on the show uh have some kind of background in sex work. Is it true? I don’t know. I don’t have the stats. Is it a fact that most people have the impression that the whatever podcast brings on a disproportionate amount of women with a background in sex work? Yes.

5:05:38 · We literally those are two separate things.

5:05:44 · Hold on. Disproportionate and majority are two separate things. Like for example, disproportionate let’s say like the amount of women between the ages of 18 to 25, 10% of them do sex work. and like we bring on 15% uh 15% of our guests do sex work that would be disproportionate but majority would mean 50 51% and more for I can just speak on the last panel that I was on the women that were on the panel were not 15 to 25

5:06:12 · there was a much larger age range was there not I don’t see how that’d be relevant so then you’d have to so then you’d have to put the equivalent age range that you had on the show from the youngest girl there to the oldest one and then see what the percentage of women within that age range that work.

5:06:29 · I’m willing to actually grant I’m I’m actually willing to grant that of the women who come on the show in terms of the proport uh comparing to the general population the proportion of women who are sex workers. I’m willing to grant that say the it’s I think 10 to 15% of all the guests in total that we’ve ever had on the show do some form of sex work. I’m willing to grant that that that that’s disproportionate.

5:06:53 · The majority, your claim is the majority of the guests who’ve been on the show are sex workers.

5:06:58 · For I just looked it up and it’s like women under 30 between 18 and 35. It’s estimated to be like 10%.

5:07:05 · Just look this up on I heard 18 to 24 25 on that one. But yeah, 18 to 24 it’s even higher. It is like 15%. which would be but she is shifting the goalpost because my claim is never that the majority I don’t even I’ve never made the majority women are sex workers.

5:07:23 · I I know you haven’t and I I haven’t said that either. I’m saying you literally claim that.

5:07:27 · I’m saying you’re basically claiming that you don’t like the women who are This is the same criticism everyone has. Oh, he picks women to come on that look extra stupid and bad. And it’s like Yeah. And I’m saying that that is the impression that is given for those people.

5:07:43 · So you want him to curate only women that make women look good. You don’t want people that follow.

5:07:49 · He just puts out a thing and says, “Hey, if you want to come on, come on.” And these are the people who volunteer.

5:07:54 · Did I Did I screen you out? Were you screened out from coming on?

5:07:57 · No, I sex worker.

5:07:59 · I I messaged the the show, right? To be on just like everybody else does.

5:08:05 · Correct. uh most people or a benefit to being on the show for those women that do do sex work is that they do get but the majority of the girls who comes majority of the girls that we have on the show they’re not even like uh nonsexual content creators. They’re just like some girl from Kentucky. Some girl from like Alaska who works as uh I’m trying to remember the guest that we had on last week and like they’re not college girls or college girls.

5:08:34 · The average age of our guest is 25.

5:08:36 · Okay. Um again what I prefrontal cortex fully developed.

5:08:40 · What I they can vote if they’re old enough to vote. They’re old enough to decide if they want. I spoke about last time again is that the impression, the PR, what is the brand of the show, um, whether you like it or not, is that there is a disproportionate representation of women that work in sex work within the show.

5:09:02 · Maybe it’s only because the ones that uh, work in sex work are the ones that say the most outrageous things and then those are the clips that get posted on social media. I’m saying that that is the reality. people see it and now men that watch that think, “Oh my god, there’s so many dumb promiscuous women out there, we are cooked as a generation and that doesn’t help us society.”

5:09:24 · So if what if it’s true though that because of the way things have panned out with all this feminism garbage and everything, what if it’s true that we now have a young generation of women that women from 18 to like 30 are very promiscuous, not very smart, not good at critical thinking. And why? Because in the age of social media, they don’t have to learn how to think. They can just be pretty.

5:09:52 · You can just be pretty and put pictures online and things just come to you. So they never develop maturity. They never learn how to think. They never learn how to be useful.

5:10:01 · Do you think that’s the actual case?

5:10:03 · I have two daughters who are in their early and mid20s. We were talking before the show about this and I will tell you that both of them call me regularly about having to talk down their friends from starting and only fans like on a regular basis that their friends are all being promiscuous. that my daughter called me one morning and was like, “Mom, I’m at a brunch with a bunch of girls and I’m so glad that you didn’t raise me like this because they’re acting crazy and they’re still drunk from last night and I just they’re just telling me stories that are turning my hair white.”

5:10:31 · Yeah, I do think that we’ve created a young generation of women that are very problematic and we should address it and fix it.

5:10:39 · I agree. I agree with that. Uh I have had different experiences. I have uh different friends curated that have never been in those kinds of circles or or situations. I think again it goes back to the individual and what kind of company they want to keep and all of that. It is true that being promiscuous is marketed and offered to women as an easy way to make money especially. Uh and of course they’re going to say and that it’s cool.

5:11:09 · I don’t think it’s been marketed as cool. I don’t you know what I I honestly all the pop stars talking about having casual sex and I feel bad for the women that that do resort to to sex work rather than than chastising them because I I do feel that it just corrupts the soul and I think that deep down it makes them unhappy uh makes them depressed. Um, well, they all they all tell us differently, don’t they, Brian, when they come on here?

The victims of society

5:11:37 · People say different things to to reality to, you know, put a front. But I do feel really bad for those women. And I I would want them to come out of that kind of world. The way to do that, I don’t believe, is talking down to them.

5:11:52 · Um, telling them the truth, obviously, but, uh, not talking down to them. The majority of them or a good amount of them probably have experienced some kind of sexual abuse in the past that then gave them some kind of trauma, some kind of PTSD, whatever, and that led them into that kind of I don’t agree with that at all. There’s no evidence to back that up because of the reason she’s just going to keep going.

5:12:20 · It’s the Dria show. We all just have to listen to her tell us, dictate to us how things I think they’re victims of society.

5:12:27 · Nobody is forcing women into prostitution anymore. A 100 years ago, it was something you did if you were desperate. It is no longer the case. Now it’s middle middle class girls who don’t need the money, who just think it’s fun and sexy. They want the money, but they also love the validation. They love the attention. They they love the idea of being sexy and people wanting them. And what Only Fans has proved to us is just how little encouragement young women need to prostitute themselves. I don’t like that either.

5:12:58 · But I’m not going to do You do this thing where it’s like you’re trying to prove you’re for the sisterhood and you’ve insinuated through this whole thing that like, oh, look at Rachel. She’s just a pick me. She’s just trying to pander to men. Her whole audience is men. And it’s like you you think that we should deny the truth and not say true things that are offensive to women in order to protect the sisterhood. And the reason I’m always the enemy of you and women like you is because you’re like, “Why aren’t you protecting the sisterhood?

5:13:26 · Why are you out here saying things that are true if it makes us look bad?” Rachel and I say, “Stop talking over me. That’s all you’ve done this whole time.” That’s what you That’s what you’ve done. No, that’s what you’ve done. That’s what you’ve done.

5:13:39 · So, aren’t you?

5:13:40 · No. I will I will say things that are true. I have statistics and data to back it up. I know history better. I know more about history than you’ll ever have enough lifetimes to forget.

5:13:51 · Convince people.

5:13:52 · I do convince people. I convince people all the time. Go read the comments under my Joe Rogan experience. Okay. It’s one and a half million views. It’s 99% positive.

5:14:03 · Yes. You don’t I don’t agree with you. I get I get letters from women all the time. I don’t convince you because you’re a hard-headed girl.

5:14:09 · You reaffirm people’s beliefs. Some woman I don’t. You reaffirm people telling you that they You’re the one backing up the sisterhood. You’re the one saying, “Listen, women are inherently good and they would all act better if men would just be women only do something bad if men make them do it.” And I’m the one who’s saying, “No, women can be bad all on their own without men doing anything wrong.”

5:14:31 · And you won’t. you gave the example, right, of women uh sending you letters saying, “I’m so freaking happy that somebody is standing up for like for women because I’m a stay-at-home moms.”

5:14:44 · Right.

5:14:44 · So that for those of us who don’t want that is a woman who you are confirming what she already believes, her values, you’re not changing. Do you want me to bring up all the emails of women who told me that I changed their mind, including two of the girls I was on the whatever podcast with who emailed me after to say, you know what, I never thought about that. And I went home and cried about it and I’m going to this one of them was an Only Fans girl. She took down her Only Fans because she had a daughter and she’s like fantastic.

5:15:13 · You made me think of things I had never considered before. and I went home and had to like really ask myself tough questions and I cried a little bit and then I decided I’m not going to do this anymore. So yes, I do reach people. You would have no way of knowing that.

5:15:27 · Oh wait, let me read a message. Uh so hold on. Let me read a quick I got wait really quick. I got a message. I got a really quick I I received a message.

5:15:38 · Thank you for the content, man. You and Andrew’s channels have probably saved my relationship by opening my girlfriend’s eyes to the culture that a lot of modern women subscribe to. She now loves watching with me. Look at that. We got a couple. We got a man and a woman. They’re in a relationship watching me and Andrew’s channels. And I get these messages uh pretty frequently.

5:16:01 · I can pull up uh my accounts, too. And Okay, let me Can I do one real quick?

5:16:06 · Messages that I got after this. This is from a a lady who we all have our sound our listening and trying not to cry. I had a very successful business graphic design.

5:16:16 · And what made me quit for good was someone who wanted me to design book book covers for a series of goddess books. I had been living in the boss babe goddess culture for years trying to hold on to my Christian ethics and that was it. Since leaving it I have been deprogramming myself. It has been horribly toxic effect on me. It’s made me a worse wife, a worse mother and definitely a worse Christian. Thank you for your book. I feel less crazy for thinking this damaged me like it did.

5:16:39 · Also, really quick, I I do she got damage from from painting from feminism from the feminism boss babe goddess worship.

5:16:46 · You smuggled you smuggled in a claim earlier that uh either it’s me or Rachel or Andrew that we’re talking down to these women to the only fans women.

Talking down to others…

5:16:58 · What do you mean? Can you give me like uh it doesn’t have to be verbatim. Give me an example of talking down to the women. What does that mean?

5:17:06 · I think uh anybody can go and they can I mean your show’s tomorrow, right? At what time? At 3 4:30.

5:17:13 · Well, yeah, but that’s tomorrow.

5:17:15 · Something that happened in the past.

5:17:17 · Well, they can see tomorrow’s show or go back.

5:17:20 · Why would you assume that somebody’s going to be talked down to tomorrow? Uh, and I know that’s the case unless you’re unless you’re unless you’re becoming a little bit more selfware on even but even the tone in addressing women.

5:17:34 · So great. My tone is terrible. Won’t you and even uh telling women to shut up or do this? The way you address Yeah. Give me an example of talking down.

5:17:46 · I just I just mentioned it. If you’re, you know, hosting people and you tell somebody, you know, shut up or shut the up or anything like that, that is talking down to women. Do you agree that that’s an example of talking?

5:17:58 · Well, I could say shut the up to a man, too, I suppose. But, um, but that is also if somebody is talking down to women and it has happened and I watched Yeah, sure. I’m going to I’m absolutely going to agree that there have been moments where I’ve told people to either shut up, shut the up, women, you shut the I’ve definitely said it. I’ve absolutely said that. However, uh you’re kind of uh missing the part where the person is not shutting the up.

5:18:25 · That is not what I observed in the last in the last time I was here. I was actually so surprised um with those interactions because never in my life have I seen when you’ve given interactions between men and women.

5:18:36 · That’s great. When you’ve given people instructions on multiple fronts over messages before the show, you ask people not to be interrupting.

5:18:45 · Does that matter? That’s a part of being a host, Brian.

5:18:47 · Okay. Well, you might say that it’s impolite, but you you’re doing something different here. Again, I’m asking you, what is the specific talking down?

5:18:55 · Uh talking down to women in calling them uh unintelligent or call someone unintelligent.

5:19:03 · I’d have to I guess go back to go back to shows or but again, I I don’t have the time to watch these whatever 10-hour podcasts done on Sunday. Um, but yeah, I think anybody that does watch them will see those negative interactions um against the girls. That’s what I saw when I was here last time. I was really uh really surprised by how bad it was, honestly.

5:19:30 · And again, I think those kinds of interactions don’t do anything to help get those women out of what you want them to do. You know, you get uh you get more um bees with honey than you do with poo, right? That is what I’m trying to say here. Like if we’re trying to bring people to our side, get them to agree with us. I’m not say distort.

5:19:55 · I’m not sure if that’s actually true to be honest.

5:19:57 · Don’t distort facts, but the delivery does absolutely matter. Um well, I’m I’m actually interested in exploring somewhat related to this. You you’re I’m actually kind of tired. suggest well we we’ll get to we’ll wrap soon then but uh this this suggestion that either Andrew Wilson Rachel Wilson or myself that that we are divisive right uh yes when it comes to relations with

5:20:23 · men and women Rachel so we just a different what specifically is the divisive content um again portraying a majority of women to be uh somebody that has a background in sex work. Even if that’s not the case on the show, if you go on social media and you see clips, nobody portrays it as the majority. Do you want to pick different words? The impression that is given. Do you understand how public relations work?

The podcast’s divisive content

5:20:53 · How would that matter if some people have the perception a majority of the women on the show are sex workers?

5:21:01 · Most people have the impression that that’s just I don’t think that’s true at all. you how would you first off you’d have to demonstrate that most women are sex workers cuz I don’t think you do.

5:21:11 · I’m saying that from the clips being presented on social media.

5:21:15 · Often times wait hold on even if you were judging base just off the clips the women in the like 60-second clips are not saying hey by the way my name is Becky and I’m a sex worker. Most the clips omit the woman’s profession. So, how would you establish that the uh women in these clips are even sex workers?

5:21:35 · That I guess again it’s the impression that the impression that’s your I think that’s your bias.

5:21:42 · I think a good way to test this out, Brian, would be why don’t you do a man on the street video? So go with the camera on the street, walk around this area and ask people first if they know of the whatever podcast and then second what do they think the or what is their impression of the podcast and would they believe that uh sex workers are over

5:22:07 · represented in the in the show one you’re just wrong but what does this have to do with my actual question that related to in which way so I was asking you what is the actual divisive content of the show and then you just defer to uh a majority of people think or have a perception that your show primarily has on why would that be divisive and one it’s and secondly it’s just false because it puts because for the men watching it takes it gets them thinking that uh the

5:22:40 · reason why uh they are single or are lonely is because a majority of women are promiscuous A majority of women are just not intelligent. Instead of reflecting upon themselves, taking responsibility upon themselves, bettering themselves as as men.

5:22:58 · What are you saying? What are you You’re not even know exactly what I’m saying. I don’t know what you’re saying.

5:23:03 · Men watching say or men watching think men watching can someone have a false perception?

5:23:10 · Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s what’s going on.

5:23:14 · So then that’s an error. That’s an error on their part. I’m asking you in truth, in actuality, what is the divisive content of my podcast?

5:23:26 · Again, the divise the divisive part of it is that the end goal, the end result of it is that men have a more negative perception of women as a whole from watching it. Do you disagree with that?

5:23:41 · Hold on, repeat that one more time. that the end perception of men watching your that podcast is that they have Sorry, sorry, sorry.

5:23:51 · is that they have a ne more negative perception of women than they did before watching the podcast.

5:23:58 · It turns out when you let women say what they really think, they don’t look so good sometimes. And she doesn’t like that. And she would like you to conceal that.

5:24:06 · She would like you to hide that, please, because it doesn’t make women look good.

5:24:10 · Well, when you bring on women that are, you know, young dumb girls from Wait, if they’re young and dumb, why are we letting them vote?

5:24:19 · Being indoctrinated by their college professors, but you want them to vote if we’re bringing on, you know, sex work ignore me.

Pressing for answers

5:24:27 · Then then yes, you’re going to get ridiculous question. You’re going to get these women are so ridiculous. Why are you pressing them to vote? Because unfortunately, even the most ridiculous of people and ideas to be agree it’s unfortunate that they’re voting to be defended at the ballot box and we have You still didn’t actually answer my question.

5:24:48 · We have to convince them.

5:24:49 · You didn’t answer my question. You simply said even if I were to grant that the We have to convince the dumb sex workers to vote for us guys rather than just saying maybe they shouldn’t vote.

5:24:58 · Well, hold on.

5:25:00 · You didn’t actually You didn’t actually answer my question. This is a two to one to end this.

5:25:04 · So even if the even if strong Oh my god. You got this. I believe in you.

5:25:11 · Even if that even if what you’re saying is true and the end result is that a proportion of men had a slightly increased negative perception of women, that still doesn’t answer my question of what specific No. No. What specifically is the divisive nature or divisive content on my podcast? What is the divisive nature or content of it? What am I saying that is divisive?

5:25:36 · It’s not what you’re saying. It’s the result of it. What is the end result?

5:25:41 · What is that? That is my point.

5:25:43 · That is not the question I’m asking. I’m asking you’re saying Brian, your content is divisive. I’m asking you what is the divisive content and you’re saying some men end up uh having a negative impression of women. That doesn’t answer the question.

5:25:57 · Yeah. would vary on an episode toep episode basis. What is the divisive content?

5:26:04 · What is the divisive ideological positions that I hold or that Andrew espouses?

5:26:09 · Um, again saying that men and women uh are not equal in the legal in the legal sense that uh women do not contribute equally to society as as men do. Uh that’s an argument that Andrew has made. was factually true, would it be divisive?

5:26:29 · Yes.

5:26:30 · Well, it’s not factually true. It is factually true.

5:26:32 · Um, men and women equally contribute to society. You can’t have one.

5:26:36 · Hold on. How could that actually define equal?

5:26:39 · You gave me define equal.

5:26:41 · Equal in value.

5:26:42 · Wait, wait, wait, hold on. So, men and women, Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Let me make something clear. Men and women have inherent equal value. They have in they’re equal in moral value. Inherent value. Men are men and women are equal. But you can never make the claim that in terms of what men and women contribute to society that they’re equations are equal.

5:27:06 · Yes, they are. They’re different.

5:27:08 · They’re not equal. That’s actually not true. My friend Aaron Clary wrote this fantastic book called A World Without Men. Cannot recommend it enough. And he’s an economist.

5:27:18 · And this is And this is my want to reproduce with men. He’s an economist because Hold on. Let Rachel Let Rachel Hold on. Let Rachel Let Rachel get through her thing.

5:27:29 · This is why women aren’t getting married. I mean, wait. What? Hold on. Wait. We have to explore that. But Rachel, please finish your question.

5:27:35 · If you if you believe men and women, you have to make women happy or they’ll hold the whole human race hostage and refuse to reproduce and let humanity die out. So, be nice to women. Tell them what they want to hear. Anyway, my friend Aaron Clary wrote this fantastic book. I cannot recommend it enough. It’s called a world without men, an analysis of an all-female economy. And he goes through the top jobs that women do and the top jobs that men do in the economy.

5:28:04 · And he’s very fair. He’s not like me. He’s not he’s way less radical than me. He’s pretty pretty normal, chill guy.

5:28:10 · And he know and he breaks it down in such a way that he shows what jobs are essential. um what jobs are like pretty important, what jobs are not that important, and jobs that are totally useless. And the the split between women is like men do 70% of all the essential and very important jobs that just like we can’t live as a species if they don’t do is is having kids not the most essential but we’re talking about in the work in the workforce. Women aren’t having kids and you said the women won’t have kids until the men do what they want.

5:28:43 · But that is the value that they bring to society. But they’re not doing it. You’re not doing it. Most of them aren’t doing it. It’s 1.5 kids per woman now. Women aren’t doing it. They want to have a office job.

5:28:54 · And both of you just said that what men contribute to society is of greater value than what women contribute to society. It is. Yes. Which is it used to be equal. The women were having children and raising them themselves.

5:29:09 · I don’t think that’s the only reason. I don’t think that’s the only essential job women can do. Wait, she did smuggle something in there.

5:29:17 · She smuggled a bunch of in two to one debate. I guess it takes two of them against you’re directing some of the Okay, to make their points. Just wanted to call that out.

5:29:27 · Call one out.

5:29:28 · The fact that now it’s a two to one debate. Um Well, if I think it’s fair because you’re a contradiction machine, you assert things you can’t of you to go up against one of my Oh gosh, Brian. If that’s not the case, then prove me wrong.

5:29:43 · I think it’s fair. I did for the last 4 hours.

5:29:45 · Uh, prove me wrong that it takes just one of you.

5:29:48 · I think it’s fair if you’re I whooped your ass for 4 hours straight with no help from Brian.

5:29:52 · Sure, Rachel. Yeah, I think it’s fair.

5:29:54 · Sure, Diana. Sure, Drianna. Sure, D.

5:29:57 · Rachel.

5:29:57 · Dr. I think it’s fair if you’re directing criticisms towards me that at that moment I can engage specifically on that. But here, let you asked questions about your show. Of course, I had to answer them. Well, I think it was it was related to something you had brought up specifically.

5:30:14 · Look in the monitor at your face. Look how smug. Yeah. You sit here like this and you go, “Uh, having good posture.”

5:30:22 · Here, wait. Let me No, it’s your face. Your face does like a Because I find And if you read the comments of your last appearance, all anybody said was, “She’s insufferable. She’s so smug. She’s so arrogant.” And it’s like, I’ve demonstrated to you that you’re wrong on multiple accounts and you just stonewall, obvious ignore because you’re wrong on the fact that uh you should not be allowed to vote.

5:30:45 · Period.

5:30:45 · That’s your opinion. You don’t have anything to back it up. That’s just your opinion.

5:30:50 · Why should women be able to vote?

5:30:52 · Because women and men have equal inherent value. And so therefore, again, the is gap. This is why people are like in the comments begging me to force you to answer the isot gap because you’re like they should because they should because they should. That’s what you’re saying. Women should be able to vote because women should be able to vote because women are because because and you just repeat. That’s not an argument, darling.

Defining natural law and hypocrisy

5:31:15 · You’re very pretty. Okay, you’re very pretty, but that’s going to run out at a certain point.

5:31:19 · We have a right to that goes away when you get older. So, you have to learn to use your brain. Do you understand? So you can’t say women should vote cuz women should vote cuz women should vote because they should because they should. That’s not an argument. You didn’t even make an argument this whole time.

5:31:35 · Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, which used to be property. Um we have a right. We have a right. That’s we have a right. We have a right because we have a right because we have a right because we have a right in the US Constitution. That’s why should we let everyone vote? because it is what is morally correct based on what?

5:31:57 · Natural law. Natural rights which you don’t want to accept.

5:32:00 · No. Natural no reason. Natural law does not say everyone gets a vote. It literally says that nature works in a hierarchy and that there’s patriarchy. That’s what natural law says. So you are in our US Constitution which I believe in and support.

5:32:16 · I’m done. Brian actually mentions and outlines the chats and do clothes that are just going to come from you know and from natur because we should because Rachel the problem is not an argument the problem is you’re not convincing go back to school and learn how to make an argument you’re not convincing anybody

5:32:37 · you’re not convincing anyone of anything well actually no you’ve convinced everybody that you are arrogant and insufferable that you’re incorrect You’re ignorant and you’re way worse than I thought you were going to be in this debate. I thought you would come with something better than women should be able to vote because women should be able to because they should.

5:32:56 · I thought somebody closing 50 would be a less I’m 45 now. Come on. Let’s not Let’s not PUSH IT. CLOSING 50. COME ON. I’M 45. YEAH, you’re pushing 40 over there.

5:33:08 · Would be a lot less uh emotional in their arguments.

5:33:12 · Yes, you got me. I’m very emotional.

5:33:14 · more logical arguments instead of just trying to Honey, I just demonstrated to you what logic is and you can’t comprehend it. You can’t even understand what I’m saying.

5:33:23 · Uh, are you are we ready for for Yeah, let’s do it. I love her telling me about logic. It’s almost as good as when she was telling Andrew about logic and it’s like, yeah, where he where he I I love that part where Andrew is an actual legian.

5:33:37 · He uh you also couldn’t define hypocrisy last time.

5:33:41 · No, he did define hypocrisy. He defined it correctly. No, he did not. Yes, he did. He did not.

5:33:46 · Yes, he did.

5:33:47 · Did not could not understand the basis.

5:33:49 · This is why you don’t let women vote.

5:33:51 · There is no amount of reasoning, logic, um talking to them, explaining, demonst it doesn’t matter. She’s right because she’s right because it’s her pre what it comes down to is her preference. She prefers things a certain way and therefore it is because it is because it is. And that’s you’ll never get past that. She’s got like a intellectual ceiling that forbids her from understanding anything past I want because I want because I want and it is because it is.

5:34:15 · Uh I suggest people go on my we should go if you guys want to go on my social media platforms especially Instagram and we can and you can watch the debate between myself and her uh husband on those topics.

5:34:28 · Well, you know what we’re going to do and judge for yourself. I don’t know if Andrew comments I don’t know if Andrew is still watching but Andrew We’ll get you a one v one with Andrew.

5:34:37 · Yeah, absolutely.

5:34:38 · We’ll get you a one v one with Andrew.

5:34:40 · Don’t do that to my poor husband.

5:34:42 · Here. Look.

5:34:43 · Why do you hate him, Brian? What are you doing?

5:34:45 · What can I say? I’m a sist. Um but uh or a massochist. I don’t know. I don’t know which one. Probably a little bit of a uh we’re all glutton for punishment, I guess. But um here’s what we’ll do. We have some we’ll we have some uh reads that we have to do. We have some super chats, but we keep uh we keep getting a little distracted. So, we’ll do closing now and then we’ll save the reads uh for after the closing statement so we can at least get through the closing statements.

5:35:14 · So, for those watching, if you want to ask a question, leave a statement. Uh I we do have some that are in the pipeline. Those of you who are patiently waiting, we’ll get to those. $10 display, $100 read. Drop us a follow Prime Twitter.tv whatever. Drop us a like. Uh like the video. Buy Rachel Wilson’s book. Oh my god, my mic almost dropped. Uh Ault Feminism. Amazon.com or Amazon.com.

5:35:39 · Amazon. Amazon. Uh you can buy her book there. Also, Debbun University. If you want to learn how to become a master debater, you scream at the mic. That’s how you do it.

5:35:47 · Debate University.com.

Closing statements

5:35:50 · Okay. So, let’s do closing statements. I believe uh you get to go first with your closing statement and then Rachel will go second. Go ahead.

5:36:00 · Sure.

5:36:00 · My closing statement would be that uh again rights are are natural. Um men and women deserve uh equal voting rights. That’s basically it. And saying that women deserve equal voting rights and financial rights as men does not a feminist make. um by that definition

5:36:24 · which you like to put upon pretty much everybody then most people would be uh called feminist and I think you do the movement the conservative movement a disservice uh pretty much by advocating for relinquishing women’s rights as a whole and if you don’t agree with like you said a constitutional republic if you don’t agree with women’s voting rights if you don’t agree with women not having financial independence.

5:36:51 · May I suggest visit Iran, go live there, one-way ticket anywhere else in the world where women don’t have rights and actually practice what you preach. Uh and also don’t vote like you said you have before and that like how you said you will continue to do in the future.

5:37:11 · Um I actually walk the walk and talk the talk. Uh I practice what I preach. Um, and I think that is what proves that, uh, my ideas, my ideas stand. So, uh, just like I would tell a Kami that lives in the US, if you don’t like it here, if you don’t like our values, go to Cuba, go to Venezuela, anywhere else in the world. Um, that’s what I would recommend.

5:37:36 · Go somewhere or set up your own country, call it whatever you want, where uh, women don’t have equal values to men. Me on the other hand, I’m actually going to make arguments that help people come to our side uh rather than tell them the solution is you don’t get a right to vote. That is illogical. It’s never going to happen. Um and so it’s a non-solution. It’s just a grifting talking point. That’s my closing statement.

5:38:09 · All right. Thank you very much for that, Rachel, if you’d like to give yours.

5:38:13 · Yeah.

5:38:13 · So all we heard for the last several hours was contradictions, logical fallacies, conflation, um just a total contradiction machine. She would make libertarian arguments and say, “I want individualism. I don’t want the government involved.” And then make arguments where she’d say, “The government needs to come in and equalize things.” Just lots of obfuscation, stonewalling.

5:38:37 · Um no actual arguments at all. She doesn’t even understand what an argument is. An argument is not just asserting your opinion. You have to have a grounding foundation behind what your opinion is. And you have to be able to demonstrate it and point out that the other person has incoherencies or inconsistencies in their worldview. Not only did she fail to do that, but she just resorted to being obnoxious as I So, basically everything I predicted in my opening is exactly what happened. She came to a debate um completely unarmed.

5:39:10 · Like I said, if this was a beauty pageant, she’d do great. Unfortunately, debating is not her forte, and after this, I expect she’ll fade back into relative obscurity among the sea of conservative MAGA Barbaries who are out there just posting these same garbage talking points that haven’t helped anyone or done anything to move us in a direction we want to go. Certainly not as conservatives because, as we demonstrated, she is most certainly not a conservative.

5:39:32 · So, uh, this idea that my job as a woman is to maintain the image and the PR status of the sisterhood at the cost of truth is I understand why it rubs a lot of women the wrong way. I understand that it makes them uncomfortable. I do not care. And the reason I do not care is because the undeniable result of almost 100 years of feminism is that children are growing up in broken homes.

5:40:00 · They are growing up without their dads in a lot of cases. They’re growing up being raised in daycarees because moms think that they need to work and they prioritize career over their own children. They outsource the most important thing they can do with their lives to some random daycare worker wage slave and let the state raise their kids in public schools. And I’m not going to ever sacrifice the well-being of children on the altar of feminism so that people like Drianna can feel good about her life choices or whatever it is that she wants. Um, I’ve been super consistent.

5:40:31 · All my arguments were coherent. I had grounding and foundation for all of them. I had history and facts on my side, but I’m also able to actually articulate why things ought be the case and poke all kinds of holes in her baseless assertions. So, um, yeah, this reminds me a lot of her telling me, uh, please don’t come on here and say the truth about women if it makes them look bad because it gives up the game.

5:40:58 · Reminds me a lot of Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Katie Stanton preventing women from being able to vote on whether or not they wanted the vote. If you don’t know that, it’s actually a fact. Women always voted in referendums not to pass the 19th. Women overwhelmingly voted against giving women voting rights. And it wasn’t because they don’t like women.

5:41:18 · It was because they didn’t want everyone to vote. So there’s there should be massive restrictions on voting. Not just women, but people who are taking more from the system than they’re getting back. people who weren’t born here. There’s all kinds of restrictions. You probably should have to pass a civics test. You should probably have to pass tests on basic knowledge about government. So, it’s not only women.

5:41:40 · However, I do think that letting women does letting women vote against their husbands vote, separates families. It pits the sexes against each other. If we do care about families and intact marriages and getting men and women back on the same page, we’ve got to stop with the delusions about the women’s liberation stuff and that it could ever exist in a world without the technology and the simps that allow it. So, I’m going to say what’s true regardless of whether or not the sisterhood likes it.

5:42:11 · Fantastic.

5:42:12 · All right, we’re going to let some chats come through here. remind you guys, I I wanted to hold some of the display chats just while they were giving their closing statements. $10 for display, $100 read. If you’ve enjoyed the stream, like the video. Let’s get into some of the chats. We have craftsman ethos fem being a tone police. Please remember you’re being allowed to talk right now by man Brian.

Superchats

5:42:40 · Okay. Thank you for your super chat, Craftsman.

5:42:42 · That’s hilarious.

5:42:43 · Uh appreciate that. Thank you, Craftsman. Guys, W’s in the chat for all these supporters tonight. Christopher Scott, thank you for your super chat, Chris. That’s wrong. Most men who watch realize that Californian women and fem women such as yourself are retorted.

5:43:04 · It’s like the combination of tortoise and Uh, thank you for that, Christopher Scott. I do appreciate that. Uh, we have solo rob who invited the fake blonde Camala hair. Oh, sorry. This is below the threshold. I apologize. That should have just been a display. Oopsie.

5:43:23 · Oopsie. Oops. Oopsy.

5:43:25 · Oopsie.

5:43:27 · She’s as blonde as she is conservative. Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

5:43:31 · Why did you accidentally post some of the ones that are calling out Rachel and you?

5:43:37 · We have Yeah. Oopsie.

5:43:40 · What? There’s plenty of low threshold comments that uh Well, it has to if they’re talking it has to be about I noticed one of your good friends posting.

5:43:50 · Well, not just my friends, but No, like your bestie from your Instagram was posting.

5:43:54 · I saw him on there, too. So, uh as well. So, you’ve got your little trolls in the chat, too. Don’t trolls, you know, actual followers and supporters.

5:44:03 · Wait, hold on. Uh okay, we have By the way, what’s that whole thing like?

5:44:08 · Hold on, hold on, hold on.

5:44:09 · MAGA women. I feel like that’s just out of envy is, you know, the blonde ma.

5:44:14 · No, they all jumped on this grifting train. Like there’s one named Patriot Barbie who did this. Um there’s a whole bunch of these girls that were like, “Oh my god, Trump. I’m MAGA. Come to my Instagram and look at pictures of me in my Star Spangled bikini. I love Trump.”

5:44:29 · It’s definitely like a phenomenon. Would you call the host at Fox or, you know, really his voice?

5:44:35 · Immaterial. Objection. Immaterial.

5:44:38 · Objection. Relevant. Uh, meme bird to fem. If you didn’t have breakfast today, how would you feel?

5:44:45 · Lighter.

5:44:47 · And what do men need to do to fix it? To Rachel, you’re awesome. And Andrew has a great beard. Uh, memb soldier. I don’t see why Nitwit is complaining about Brian bringing on dumb girls. He platformed you twice. Show a little gratitude, honey. Okay, there you go.

5:45:08 · I think Brian is is grateful for all of the uh all of the donations.

5:45:13 · That is that is true. I’m very for bringing me on the show or else it would not have been as I mean we could have put honestly we could have put another feminist in that chair.

5:45:24 · Nobody really triggers or apparently you’ve told me that. Nobody’s triggered you as much as I have in the last show.

5:45:29 · I didn’t I don’t think I said that. Although to be fair, you were. Uh, she’s very special.

5:45:35 · Ruff my feathers.

5:45:36 · She’s a very special and very important person.

5:45:39 · You did ruffle my feathers a little bit, but um uh Oh, I missed some. Hold on. We have Flavius.

5:45:47 · Oh, as a TTS.

5:45:48 · Flavius_ASinus has donated $200.

5:45:52 · Now, this Puser has modicum of modesty.

5:45:55 · All right. Thank you for that, Flavius.

5:45:57 · We have Dofus.

5:45:59 · uh which will be delayed that I’ll just read it now again. Fix my toilet and then sit down. Rachel is right. That is from Dofus. From Dofus. He wants you to fix his toilet. He wants That’s a great point we didn’t get to touch on. I’ll believe that she wants equality when she demands equality in dirty, difficult, and dangerous jobs.

5:46:21 · Until then, Until then, you’re full of You don’t want equality. Men can hire women to cook for them and clean for them. And women can hire men to Okay. Well, where’s all the women volunteering to clean sewers and pick up trash? Why would they do logging? Well, they want equality. Why don’t they want to do all the dirty, dangerous, difficult stuff?

5:46:39 · They want equal choice. Rachel, there’s a difference.

5:46:41 · They’ve always had equal choice.

5:46:42 · Uh yeah, they can choose to go.

5:46:44 · They could choose to do those things before. They could choose to do whatever they wanted before. Feminism just forced everybody to make them. You’re the one that’s trying to force people into one thing or the other, Rachel.

5:46:59 · I think women should be mothers, but they can also be whatever the heck else they want to.

5:47:02 · Did I say they couldn’t? No, I never said that. Of course, they shouldn’t.

5:47:06 · I said they can do that after they fulfill their duty to society.

5:47:11 · I Yeah, you can you can do more than one thing. Yes, I agree with you.

5:47:15 · Uh, okay. We have uh he sent it in twice, I guess. Joe Blow Joe Blow donated $200. Now this has a modicum of modesty.

5:47:26 · Typical.

5:47:29 · I don’t even The sentence is not coherent.

5:47:34 · I’ve been doing this. We’ve been here like what five hours now?

5:47:37 · Yeah, we’re just there’s a few chats that are finishing up. We have Joss Tomron. You can boil the vote issue down to the fact that men are forced to go to war if need be. Women have got the comfort of the vote without the responsibility on top of abandoning their procreating.

5:47:57 · Uh I am not in favor of any kind of draft or men being doesn’t matter. We live in reality and we have a draft. We have a draft though. You’re not getting rid of it and it’s not going anywhere.

Removal of the draft

5:48:09 · Yes, that can actually that there’s Oh, now things can change. Brian that actually another contradiction that is more realistic. um than women having their right to vote taken away.

5:48:23 · That wouldn’t be perpetually binding.

5:48:26 · Like, okay, you get rid of the draft, but war is not going away. So, the draft is not going away. Definitely not. Even if they I don’t think it’ll ever be used because of like you mentioned, wait, we’re closer. That’s crazy. The You don’t think Did you just see how many men were killed in Russia and Ukraine over the past few years?

5:48:44 · I’m talking about technology did not Rachel it would be the same thing if we were Iran we have service people who are being killed right now there which I disagree with but I’m saying my argument is that we are not going to invoke a draft anytime how can you say

5:49:00 · that you can’t say that there’s we’re going to in fact it’s inevitable that we will again at some point okay it’s inevitable that we will well we’ll see if we’re all she just lives in dulu land where she has she has normaly bias in her lifetime this is how it’s always been therefore it’s always going to be that way so another fallacy the normaly

5:49:20 · bias statistical probability no it’s not statistics you have no statistics to back that up you just keep asserting guard wait Rachel wouldn’t statistics are we done since we just statistics would bear out that we’re going to probably have a arguments but we also allow people to have some chats come through but wouldn’t the statistical statistically there have in the fact that we have construct that doesn’t require boots on the ground like we did in previous wars.

5:49:52 · Women think that because they have no idea. You have no idea about war years. It’s going to be drones. It’s going to be drones.

5:50:00 · Yeah. It’s all going to be drones.

5:50:02 · It’s going to be electrical grids going down. It’s going to be cyber warfare. It’s going to be that kind of stuff.

5:50:07 · That’ll be a component. But you’re still going to have men killing each other. Why are there currently people in the military like actual humans in the military?

5:50:16 · There’s still some jobs that can’t be filled by just can you put that on the ground uh AI or or Oh my Okay, that’s crazy. That’s crazy.

5:50:24 · Not going to be the case.

5:50:27 · Sure.

5:50:27 · So, even if we were to grant that there will never be a draft again, uh it is still a prerequisite for men to have access to the vote. And if they don’t register for the selective service, technically a felony, $250,000 fine. they’re barred from certain uh federal jobs from uh receiving federal student loans. So even then with all that you disagree with all of that. Yeah.

5:50:50 · But it is the current status quo.

5:50:52 · Yeah. Maybe we should work towards removing that. That is more of a Well, maybe we should work towards How about women sign up for the draft?

5:50:59 · Well, what they again probably not going to happen. What they did do recently.

5:51:04 · Why shouldn’t we? But to make it fair, if you want equality, women ought to sign up for the draft just like men, right? Would that be equality?

5:51:13 · I want equality, which is why I want men to not have to sign up for the draft like women.

5:51:19 · Okay, then if we get invaded by a foreign power who fights, uh, how about we finish these cuz Okay, that’s what I thought. She’s got nothing.

5:51:27 · Uh, no, I made my argument.

5:51:28 · You got nothing.

5:51:30 · I made my argument.

5:51:31 · Hold on. I’m going to What you want is equality when and where it suits you. And then you want men to as long as one sex is expected to die for the other there cannot be equality.

5:51:43 · Yes.

5:51:44 · Exactly. Exactly.

5:51:45 · Absolutely right. Correct. Most men are not dying for women.

5:51:49 · The expectation is that when it comes down to it, the men are the women and children get the lifeboats and the men are supposed to sacrifice their lives for the women and the children. And as long as that’s the expectation, there’s no such thing as equality. And that’s never going to change.

5:52:04 · And in reality, uh, that doesn’t happen, does again, very special a little bit. I can kind of see it.

5:52:11 · Tom Green.

5:52:12 · I can see it a little bit.

5:52:14 · When he was younger, you know, the Yeah.

5:52:16 · The comedian.

5:52:17 · Yeah. Yeah. The Salad Fingers.

5:52:19 · Yeah.

5:52:19 · Yeah. I’m trying to remember his big thing or whatever. Um, Christopher Scott, you said, “Not allowing women to vote is illogical. What law of logic does not allowing women to vote?”

5:52:28 · Great question. Violate logic.

The laws of logic + superchats

5:52:30 · Do you want to respond to that?

5:52:31 · You love logic. You should know the three laws of logic, right?

5:52:34 · I’ve already um I’ve already answered that question multiple times. I’m trying to get off this podcast.

5:52:41 · Well, I mean, be a good sport, but people sent in some super chats.

5:52:44 · There’s no such thing as a law of logic.

5:52:46 · How’s that?

5:52:49 · Are you serious?

5:52:50 · The law of logic. That’s a good one.

5:52:52 · Oh my gosh. Okay. So, you don’t know that there’s Wait, do you want to do a bet? $1,000 bet.

5:52:57 · A law of logic. the you just sat here on this podcast and the last podcast talking about how you’re logical and you have the logic positions and you love logic and then you said there’s no such thing as the laws of logic.

5:53:08 · What are they?

5:53:09 · There’s a single definition of the law of logic. Is that where you’re arguing?

5:53:12 · No, there’s three laws of logic.

5:53:15 · Okay.

5:53:15 · That govern how logic works.

5:53:17 · Single law of logic. He said which of the laws of log which law of logic does not allow women would it be the I’m not even gonna the law of identity.

5:53:32 · What law of logic? He’s asking which the law of non-contradiction. These are laws that govern what is logical.

5:53:38 · Otherwise, how would you know what’s logical?

5:53:40 · What’s logical is that men and women hold equal inherent value. Therefore, they should have equal legal representative. She’s a politician value and an equal.

5:53:50 · She’s a politician. She doesn’t give a straight. She won’t give you a straight answer. You can ask.

5:53:54 · That is a straight answer.

5:53:55 · That’s not the answer that you want to hear. Do you have two master’s degrees?

5:53:59 · Two bachelor’s degrees.

5:54:00 · Two bachelor’s degrees. Long time ago.

5:54:02 · All right. We have uh Jim Bob. We tried Chris defer Scott. Uh Blondie is not conservative. She still has not been able to give the actual definition and attributes of a conservative. She also will never get married. If she was wifey material, her current man would have put a ring on it as we know after a few days. In her defense, she has been married before.

5:54:28 · I have.

5:54:29 · She has. So, she did she did get married.

5:54:32 · Mhm. So, she’s no longer married. Yep.

5:54:35 · But she did get married.

5:54:37 · Correct.

5:54:38 · She got you there, Jim Bob. She’s got you there, Jim Bob.

5:54:41 · Uh, okay. Let’s see. We have some. Let me just check. Yeah, we do have a few more coming in. We have airborne. Where is it? Hold on one moment.

5:54:50 · Airborne animal. Oh, did I wait?

5:54:53 · Airborne animal. Leftist women. I’m not going to like this butterfly purposely m misrepresent the whatever. Good. Good use misrepresent the whatever podcast precisely because it holds a mirror up and reflects their actual toxicity. Dishonesty and ignorance not one step back. Thank you. Airborne animal.

5:55:17 · Is that thing like a Gen Z thing? I’ve never heard of that.

5:55:22 · It’s a crucible thing.

5:55:23 · Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. So people that are your husband’s fans, you know, you could you could like put the phone down and just, you know, be a little show a little show a little love to the the chatters.

5:55:34 · I am uh reaching out to the people that are uh reach you guys read your comments live. I was going through mine telling me congratulations on this debate.

5:55:44 · All right, woman. Come fix my toilet and fix the sewer and say we are equal and yes, this is 450. He’s He’s keeping a spreadsheet of Oh, perfect for of all the Yeah, it’s the same guy.

5:55:59 · Yeah.

5:55:59 · Hey, that that uh that title he decides to go under doofus actually, you know, kind of appropriate. 450 so far on a show just just to just to leave comments.

5:56:14 · That’s hilarious.

5:56:15 · All right. Well, I think that’s what was pretty much a troll.

5:56:19 · They’re below the threshold. I didn’t I didn’t even read them. Oh Wait.

5:56:27 · Okay.

5:56:29 · Uh I think that’s it.

5:56:32 · All right.

5:56:33 · Yeah. I just Those are the last.

5:56:35 · Fantastic. Do you promise me Andrew then for the next one like he said on the show?

5:56:40 · Uh last time I was there.

5:56:41 · Let me turn in tune in to Andrew’s stream here.

5:56:45 · Andrew just I can’t hear the audio.

5:56:46 · Thumbs up. Thumbs down. Andrew. Uh, do you want to Andrew now that you sent your way?

5:56:51 · You want to debate Andrew? Do you thumbs up Andrew if you want to do a debate with uh Drano?

5:56:57 · Sorry. I’m sorry.

5:56:59 · Dre, Brian Sienna.

5:57:02 · Drianna.

5:57:05 · Andrew. Andrew wear.

5:57:07 · Do the Troy. Do the Troy. You know the walking Phoenix. The be a man. Andrew.

5:57:15 · He says thumbs up. thumbs up. He double thumbs up. He wants two debates with you.

5:57:19 · Fantastic.

5:57:20 · Oh You look so handsome.

5:57:22 · Oh There was one actually one thing I wanted to ask. Uh you had been interfacing with somebody online. Um and uh Trump recently tweeted that he was glad this guy who was prosecuting him prosecuting him died. Now I personally um I actually disagreed with Uhhuh. Isn’t that I disagreed with Trump on this? Look, I understand this guy had it out for Trump and was probably like trying to ruin Trump’s life essentially.

5:57:55 · Um, and I think it’s okay to strongly dislike or even hate somebody who’s trying to ruin your life. But I do think like um and perhaps even privately you can have a degree of okay, well, this guy’s dead. I’m not going to shed a tear. But I do think it’s it is in bad taste to say that you’re glad somebody’s died, even if it’s an enemy. Um, and you seem to be totally fine with that.

5:58:21 · Why? Because of the Trump’s You were fine with Trump’s comment. You’re like, “Yes, I’m glad.”

5:58:28 · Where? Where have I said that? I’m okay with somebody sent me a message perhaps. If I’m incorrect, feel free to correct me, but is that your position? Uh, I don’t agree with a lot of uh a lot of the tone. Again, I’m big on tone. Um, oh, surprise.

5:58:45 · No, it’s not surprise. It’s consistency, Rachel. Uh, and not hypocrisy. Um, I would definitely see how some people would disagree with, you know, Trump’s comments. I neither endorse nor uh condemn.

5:59:02 · I think that the reason why Trump got elected into office is because he says things as he feels them and it’s the most honest of a president that we’ve ever had because he has no filter and I prefer a president without a filter over anything else. So that’s my comment on it.

5:59:21 · That didn’t even answer the the question, but he’s a professional obviously.

5:59:25 · She’s okay.

5:59:27 · Just because I’m a lot more diplomatic and can control my emotions, Rachel, does not mean I’m a professional. It had nothing to do with controlling emotions. It’s just like you don’t answer a question in a straightforward manner.

5:59:39 · You don’t even answer the question.

5:59:40 · Often times, uh, I answered your question. I again just didn’t answer what you wanted.

5:59:45 · You meandered around the question. I guess that is one.

5:59:47 · I know it’s triggering to not get exactly what you want.

5:59:51 · She accuses me of not controlling my emotions, but she’s so passive aggressive, which is typical like snarky woman behavior. Like if I’m just having fun and I’m talking like this and I get a little animated, it’s like, “Oh my god, look at her. She’s so out of control.” But then she’ll do the passive aggressive snark and the smug and the arrogant. Like that doesn’t come off horrible. Like everybody watching isn’t going to notice that.

6:00:16 · Uh yeah. I think stupid. You think people are dumb and they can’t see right through you?

6:00:22 · Uh I think most people watching this will have the right opinion of me and of you afterwards.

6:00:26 · Oh, I think they will too. We agree on that. Okay, we have doofus the title dorfus it talking to you woman and yes 550 he must be liquored up a little bit he must be doing shots he’s he’s uh Dorfus uh you need to change your name on Streamlabs to Dorfus from now on doofus uh you got to change it to Dorfus um that’s like Dorothy and or Never come by.

6:00:58 · Uh, I don’t understand why feminists and femons refuse to watch Andrew or Rachel debate before these debates. How do you come in not knowing the basic positions? Is it just laziness? Says Cha XD.

6:01:13 · Uh, it’s very easy. I have all of her uh talking points written down and they’re all the same. I didn’t have to sit and actually watch them though. What you can do is download the transcripts on YouTube and then extract all these different arguments, which is what I did because I’m efficient on time and don’t want to waste it hearing incorrect.

6:01:34 · I can see that not preparing properly did you a lot of favors.

6:01:37 · Uh yeah, it definitely Should we do a roast session?

6:01:41 · A roast session?

6:01:42 · I’ll leave it up to both of you.

6:01:44 · If you guys are down for a little roast, we lower the TTS a little bit.

6:01:48 · No, we can come back though. You can invite me back for a roast a little bit session for sure. Is she doing dating talk tomorrow?

6:01:54 · I don’t think so.

6:01:55 · No, she’s Miami.

6:01:58 · We have other good people on the on the panel though, so that’ll be good. Okay, we’re going to wrap it there. Um, we we did go have a long debate. Well, I do want to even though uh it got heated in moments and uh I got I ced caught cotched caught caught some strays. I got some strays for I guess uh I do want to thank both of you for participating in this debate.

6:02:24 · Rachel, it’s been almost two years since we’ve last had you on. So, it’s great to have you back.

6:02:30 · Did I bring you back here, Rachel?

6:02:31 · She was got to thank me for that.

6:02:33 · She was planned.

6:02:35 · It was planned.

6:02:36 · Uh we’ve been we’ve been wanting to have Rachel back uh regardless. So, I don’t think I need any help getting on large podcasts, but thanks.

6:02:44 · Yeah, she’s just on Joe Rogan. She was on Joe Rogan. Congratulations.

6:02:48 · She She did uh you did um Steven Crowder, too.

6:02:52 · I’d like to see you on Fox News telling the female host that she is a FEMCON.

6:02:57 · I would be totally down for that if she’s a fem, but I’ve already been on Fox News. I was on Tucker Carlson, too. So, she was on Tucker Carlson.

6:03:04 · Fantastic. That’s me doing all of this while also submitting to my husband and to my church and, you know, raising a bunch of kids. Killing it out here. Yeah. 20. It’s I think there’s a what two decade two decade almost two decade difference. No, like a one decade.

6:03:23 · 13 years older than you guys.

6:03:24 · Decade and a half.

6:03:25 · Yeah, you can catch up. You still got plenty of time.

6:03:27 · Plenty. I know. And I’ll be voting and not that much. But and I’ll be voting the entire way and telling women to vote. Uh while you tell Oh my god.

6:03:38 · No, I don’t. Oh, wait, wait, wait. I don’t tell women not to vote right now. I tell all you married women, double your husband’s vote. Okay? Go vote. Just d whatever your husband’s voting, you say, “Honey, what should I do?” And whatever he says, do that and you go out and vote. And then when they resend the 19th and they restrict voting, if if all the feminists can’t vote anymore, then you can just stay home.

6:04:02 · You’re gonna Oh, yeah. Just like Roie Wade was never going to get overturned. Just like the draft is, you know, we’re just going to never have a draft anymore. Don’t hold your breath while you wait.

6:04:13 · All right. Well, that there it is, folks. That is the uh the debate. Thank you. Uh thank you guys for joining us.

6:04:20 · We Let me get that super chat. Uh but thank you guys for joining us. Guys, if you enjoyed the stream, kindly like the video. Also, we are going to be live tomorrow 5:00 p.m. Pacific with a dating talk. Rachel will be our special guest for that also. So, uh, we have a good panel scheduled for that. Dofus has to have the final word here as always. You didn’t change your name. It should be Dorfus. Uh, but thank you for that.

6:04:47 · Appreciate the support tonight. Dorfus. Uh, Ken’s P90 with the big $200 soup chat. Thank you, Ken. A feminist will not admit to be a feminist since today. It has to be a bad cognit. Wait, cognitation. That’s a new one. conotation is what he means.

6:05:07 · Yeah. Isn’t that Isn’t that a point in my favor that I am convincing because nobody wants to be called a feminist anymore? Even like girls like you’ll be like I’m not a feminist. Well, what’s wrong with being a feminist?

6:05:17 · Women that are feminists do want to be called a feminist. Women that are not feminist.

6:05:23 · Only the ones that want to be wolves and sheep’s clothing and go, “Trust me guys, I’m super conservative and totally not a feminist.” Yeah. Uh, four years ago she would be a proud feminist, says Ken’s P90.

6:05:40 · It’s not cool anymore. We’re winning because it’s not cool anymore. Nobody likes it.

6:05:45 · Well, thank you for the uh super chat there at the end, Ken. Really very much appreciate it.

Outro

6:05:50 · And uh yeah, thank you, Ken. Uh let’s see. Thank you guys for tuning in, guys. Like the video. There’s going to be a redirect. Uh uh like the video, guys.

6:06:02 · Leave a comment. It helps with the algorithm after the stream ends. 5:00 p p.m. Pacific tomorrow. Be sure to tune in, guys. Uh, thank you for everyone who supported the show tonight. Thank you guys for the super chats. Uh, we couldn’t do it without you guys. And, you know, we’re not we’re not getting an Athletic Greens sponsorship anytime soon. So, uh, we are viewer supported, fan supported. So, thank you guys so much. And uh also shout out to Andrew who was uh sort of co-streaming who was uh doing a watch party.

6:06:32 · Shout out to Andrew. Uh hopefully we’ll have him back uh you know soon.

6:06:40 · Uh always a pleasure to have the Wilsons on. So thank you. And the the viewers by popular demand, they want to see uh they want to see you versus Andrew Wilson. So it seems like she’s game. He’s game. So we’ll do it.

6:06:56 · We will do it. Okay, guys. Uh, let me just double check. Make sure I’m not uh missing any chats, but no, I think it we all look good. Okay, let’s see. 07’s in the chat, guys. 07’s in the chat. I hope you guys have a good night and we’ll see you tomorrow. Good night, guys.